United states of america coming to it's end?

I have heard somewhere that the average lifespan of a "Great" country or nation is aproximatly 200 years, the country itself may last longer then this, but it's years of being "the best" are usualy about that long, and america is widely considered to be one of the best countries, but it has passed the 200 year mark, and we are now in a reseision, with a president that realy isn't doing that great of a job. So if you have any insight onto this, I would like to hear it.

 

'MERICA just hit a little rough spot. It always comes out fine later but we never see how. Just gotta wait a little bit. Or until 2012 and the end of the world.

 

America never had a great depression? Or was everything I was taught wrong? America also had 'bad' presidents. I think America just has to work a little bit harder for things to get better. If we did it in the mid-1930's we are sure to do it again.

I won't get to deep into politics since I don't really know much about it and I will eventually say something stupid.

 

First of all, we are not in a depression. We are in a recession, which isn't nearly as bad a depression.

Second, I agree that Obama is something of a modern Caligula, but he's not a terrible president. History has shown that bad plans in the past end up being remembered as what saved us. Now I absolutely hate this new health care plan, but I pray to God that one day I look back on it as a good thing.

Finally, I do agree that we are following a pattern set by the Romans. We started out small and weak and then grew to a thriving "empire" with a great economy. We ended up having good and bad leaders and got into our share of wars, most of them won by us. Now our economy is down and we're in the midst of war with a group that many (not including me) consider to be unreasonable savages and on top of that our leader is doing a terrible job. In many ways it does seem like we're going to fall just like Rome. However, there is one difference in our situation. Rome was fighting against people who were unable to reason with the Romans wheras our enemy, the Taliban, simply refuses to reason with us. Thus, we probably eventually reach an agreement, either by convincing the Taliban to disban (lol, I made a funny) or by convincing them that we aren't the savages they think we are.

 

What is your reasoning behind this? I thought Bush was a good president, and I don't like Obama, but I think he's doing the best he can, and I don't think he's a bad president at all.​

 

Not saying that they are bad people, I personaly think Bush was a great guy, not to sure about Obama, but the way that Obama is trying to achive his goals, and some of his goals, I don't like, I am personaly against any socialistic ideas, and the democrats favor some socialistic ideas, (the healthcare plan for example) but the republicans are more against them. I also don't like the fact that many major news stations are extreamly biased in the democrats favor.
But that is just me personaly.

 

Well actually, and correct me if I'm wrong here, the health care plan is not universal health care. Rather it requires us to buy health insurance. Either way, it's still a bad idea.

And as far as for/against socialism, I've kind of got mixed feelings there. There are many perks to socialism, and I should know since I have family living in a socialist country, but it's also very lacking in balance too. With universal health care people usually end up going to the doctor over every little thing because their taxes pay for it. Because of this, there comes to be a shortage of doctors that can help.

This was the case with my cousin who lives in Holland. She has dyslexia, and because of that her choices for college are extremely limited due to a skills and interests evaluation that she took. If she had been diagnosed sooner, she could have gotten accommodations on that test and would have more options for college majors. Now she can still take majors other than those the results of that test say, but the government won't pay for her education. Because of this situation she has to come to America to finish out her high school education, which will also lead to some obvious problems since her American History studies have been limited to her World History and Geography courses.

Now with capitalist health care, she could have been diagnosed much more quickly because fewer people would have been bothering psychologists and the school with their kids' problems and how they might be signs of disability.

All in all, universal health care is not the way to go and I'm glad that Obama didn't do that. However, his plan is almost as bad, the only difference being that health care will not be paid for by taxes. But as I said before, I really hope it does end up being the solution simply so that America won't die any time soon.

 

You mean them same alignment of the cosmos that happens every year? Real spooky there.

Every country comes to its end at some point. Will the US disband or fall any time soon in our life time? Probably not. Economically, it certainly makes it's share of messes. But the market always rebounds as long as people are willing to trade something shiny.

I fail to see how making quality health care more accessible ends up being socialist or even a bad thing. Canada and a number of other countries are thriving with that kind of system. Besides I fail to see how a government taking care of its people is a bad thing.

 

My sentiments exactly. Britain has had a healthcare plan like this since the early 20th Century (Known as the NHS) and it's one part of our legislation that I can pretty much guarantee that no one in the country would do without.

I don't know the specifics of Obama's idea here, but if it's anything like what it is over here, why on earth are you opposed to it?

 

Because it is taking away even more freedom from the average american, now we will be forced to buy health care, not that that is a bad thing in itself, but it goes against america's morals of freedom to force our citizens to do something. Not to mention the fact that Obama broke laws in getting this Healthcare plan to be signed.

 

You already pay for independently run medical and health care services already. And from what I'm understanding the tax hike is reasonable considering it costs an arm and a leg already for some of the services you have to pay for out of your own pocket. In Canada and the U.K. what would be freely available to the public is capable of bankrupting the average American. Long term cancer treatment alone for the average American is enough to put a family so far into debt that it's almost inhumane.

As for the freedom to choose, the right to vote for it's instatement will have it's time. But as far as I'm aware most Americans can barely afford certain medical procedures and services because the insurance companies don't provide enough coverage. While it may seem to infringe on the constitution, the system you have already currently infringes on a person's right live a happy and healthy life.

 

Freedom is good for PR, little else. I'm sorry but if you're going to go with "taking away freedom", How free could you ever possibly have been? American's seem to be... well, no offense but obsessed with freedom, so any compromise is going to seem blown out of proportion. However, that is my personal view, and I don't expect you to respond to this as it has no worth in the debate.

Listen, the way I understand this is that as opposed to directly paying Doctors bills, you pay an increased amount in taxes and the government pays for healthcare (At least, that's the way it works over here). If you would end up breaking even anyway, what's the problem? And not only that, but the collaborative funds of the people amount to much more than what an individual can amass, so if you suddenly get Cancer (as a friend of mine did) then there's less of a worry financially.

Sure, this is a slight compromise on your freedom, but the way your laws work now, as I understand, compromise your chance of saying alive due to personal financial deficit. What would you rather go without?

What laws, exactly? I keep hearing this, and since I know precisely dick about America's laws (Aside from right to bear arms, an absolutely stupid law, IMO) I'm curious about this.

Aside from the rise in taxes, there is not really a downside here. Slightly higher cost of living is NOTHING compared to what medical treatment can cost many people. I've heard some talk that many people think is some socialist crap, and like White_Rook said, its not. It's the government making sure it can provide for its people. When was this a bad thing?

Is any of this any reason why the US will be "coming to its end"? No! Of course not! Why would it?

 

He got one of the congressmen to sign off on it, because that particular congressman's state will not have to pay the increased tax, while the rest of the U.S. has to, which is ilegal.

 

...

 

I never heard about this either. I'm pretty sure if this did happen, it'd cause a national uproar. Check your sources.

Anyway, back to the original subject. I don't think the country itself is going to come to an end anytime soon, nor do I think we'll lose our superpower status in the foreseeable future, but we do need to work a bit harder at fixing the problems than we already are to keep those statements true. Throwing money at the problem hasn't worked, so obviously we need a different approach. We can't blame the lack of a solution entirely on Obama; he has advisors and cabinet members who are supposed to help him make these kinds of decisions, and it's clear that they're not doing any better than he is. Basically, we need someone to get a good idea soon, whether it's Obama, someone from the Fed, or an obscure politician no one's heard of before.

 

Personally nobody knows what's going to happen to the U.S, or any other country.
But all we can do is try our damn well best to keep this country going.
Even if N. Korea is trying to start an Nuclear War with us. And Afghan as well, but eh. And about 2012, stuff is gonna happen surely, but it does not mean the end of it all.

 

What will happen in 2012 is the same thing that happens with every new year.The stop in the Mayan calendar is and has been the subject of a great deal of hearsay. Nothing more.

 

I understand that, but I mean a few more things will be happening that year. Just saying is all. Like the solar flare, equinox=planet alignment.
An eclipse at some point. Normal cosmic things. Even though scientists are making theories that the solar flare could scorch the Earth. The most I think a Solar Flare can do is knock out electricity for a certain period of time.
What do you think on that theory?

 

Okay one, don't believe in the end of the world and two, sadly but honestly I think America is going downhill . . . without brakes. The great depression was pretty bad, we managed to work our way out of it but the national debt is well over what is it now ten trillion dollars??? The economy is collapsing, the structural foundation of the country which was built on money will now collapse in on itself leaving us in a wide open spot for a hostile takeover. Sorry if you think I am going conspiracy theory here but just look at the facts . . . barely any jobs, pay is horrible, we are becoming less and less informed on matters of national security, and to top it off the news and other informational shows are becoming less and less informative of things other than deaths, tv shows, movie stars. All this is, is to keep the moderate portion of United States citizens happy and entertained. You want to know where I think we are going . . . go read Farenhiet 451 by Mr. Bradbury.