No Thanks Suggestion: It should be against the rules for staff to be invisible.

With this, I shall return tomorrow. Again, this isn't worth getting angry about.

EDIT: ~Jayn~: Ctrl+F your username, please :)

 

I really do understand what you're saying, and I acknowledge there's no personal attacks happening.

First, I would never want to disable my VMs (completely) because I think that would make me even more unreachable, even with the PM option. And I feel kind of compelled to reply to the people who message me in a friendly manner because I don't want to discourage people from talking to me, and the invisibility option helps ease that compulsion.

I understand wanting to be available, as well. But I still don't necessarily agree with banning invisibility for staff or taking that right away. I really think a compromise would be nice. For example, I just went visible for the first time in months because it seems to be an issue. I didn't think being invisible was hurting anyone and if it is, I am willing to compromise that. Same for the reason I'm not using tiny text in this thread. Since that was an issue that was brought up, I'm happy to enlarge my text for important things like this, but in areas where it doesn't matter as much (spam or my own personal things), I may still customize the way I'd like ... if that makes sense. Give and take, I guess.

So I'm fine with appearing online more often. But I don't think that staff should be forced to do so, either. I know that it being volunteer work doesn't change the fact that it's work, but I do think that we should have a choice/option. So, like what was brought up earlier, maybe we should start looking into what good reasons for being invisible are.

ALSO. Something I just thought about...I think there is a mod available for status updates that show up on your profile? I don't know if it cost something...It's similar to FB (I know, I know). But I always thought it would be really nice for myself personally.

Then, instead of appearing offline, I could simply update my status with something like "Message if needed, working on KHV Chorus" or something. It's in a place people looking for me could see it, states what I'm doing without me having to feel guilty, allows people to see when I'm online and allows myself to express that I'm busy, etc. Also, RvR and others who are on constantly but not really 'here' could have it set to something like ..."Not here" or ... something. Idk. |: Just throwing that out there. I would use that or something like it and be far less tempted to be invisible.

Edit: Aww. Thank you.



​

 

Well now that's quite rude. Ignoring my questions and telling me to leave. Sorry if I pinched a nerve or something, that wasn't my intention.

Again, I can see where that could be a problem and its is one of the downsides to being invisible. But I don't think that happens often enough where it's an issue that requires a major change, and I still get pms from new members quite often despite me being invisible.

@Jiku: I don't blame you for expressing your opinions, and it's quite alright. I understand why people would be against me being invisible (I'm going to say me, since this seems to be primarily about me being invisible now). Again, sorry if anything I said came off as if I was completely ignoring the topic at hand, it's just I don't see a solution that would benefit both sides. Actually, I'm fairly confident it doesn't exist.

 

There's may indeed be no way to physically and literally implement a solution. But since this is something that's about communication at its root, we've already made progress since we've all communicated here. It's like I understand why you appear offline and I don't blame you for it or begrudge anyone the right to it but I also see why in some cases it's unnecessary. In my head this was never about policy change so much as talking it out and trying to find common ground and in lieu of that a certain level of understanding and comprehension at least. I know that I know more now than when the thread started and while nothing is going to change on the books or in the actions of most people, the way I see things is going to be a bit differently. So it's not so much that I thought you guys were getting off topic or out of hand so much as extending that train of thought wouldn't have really brought much new to the table and like I said, the goal is to communicate, to exchange a little info, to in a way teach each other a little something.

Wow, that sounds kind of goofy.

 

I know I haven't been a part of the discussion thus far, but I just wanted to add my opinion.

I think that it is important that staff are aware of how their visibility affects their approachability. However, I don't think there should be any rules set to restrict how they use the feature. They were responsible enough to make it to staff, I think they can be trusted with the visibility feature. It should be up to each staff member to decide how they can do their job best. If they feel they can do their job better by occasionally appearing invisible (like how Jayn was saying it could be hard to focus on staff things if you're constantly being messaged), then maybe they should be allowed to do it.

 

hm maybe i shouldn't really say anything but i just figured i would throw my two cents in since this involves staff sooooo here we go. i have never once used the invisible mode feature, both when i was a member and even now when i am staff since i never really found the need to. however, what i don't understand is since i'm almost always available, even into the dead of the night running on times so that i can speak to my friends over in japan and russia but no one ever approaches me if they have a problem. probably in the entire time i have been staff only two people have ever said something to me that needed to be addressed. so if something is super urgent i'm pretty sure you can get in touch with me? unless you are super picky with your staff members then that is something else entirely.

i see myself as extremely approachable and nice and i'm pretty sure numerous people will tell you that. i am really no different than any other member here and feel no different than i was before. i'm pretty sure the staff is the same way and there shouldn't be any of this "power going to one's head" nonsense because we are all pretty levelheaded and balance each other out nicely i think. no one on staff is telling anyone how to use their invisible mode, and if we were to even suggest such a thing everyone would go nuts. i understand your argument is saying that it is staff's job to be available, similar to how when on break at work you helped out a customer. but here is the thing, you are getting paid for your work and it is an obligation whereas KHV staff is voluntarily "employed". a common rebuttal to that would be that while yes, you did not have to help the customer, you did so anyways as it would look bad on yours and the company's part if you turned a blind eye to them. yet, for KHV, if you believe someone to be unapproachable, that is not really the staff's fault? we are not mind readers and we are not responsible for knowing what you want done.

nearly all of us will relay the message to the rest of the staff for further discussion and out of the 20+ staff members aboard i'm pretty sure you can find one to communicate with. being picky and saying "oh, even 1 staff on invisible is a problem" is very unsatisfactory and stubborn. how do you know/how are you to judge what that person is doing? what if they are doing something important and are afk. besides, i'm pretty sure that the staff trust most of the members to be able to deal with the majority of their problems or at least hold off until someone is available. also, a lot of times staff gets criticized for locking threads in spam or whatever just because you were having your fun. not all the time, but it definitely does happen. is 8 hours really that long? no, i don't think so. i'm pretty sure all of you can find something to do in that time frame and normally most staff are on in a 24 hour period in cycles so it should be fine.

since communication is at its root, many have said that they see staff on MSN or skype but apparently that isn't good enough? regardless of what we do we're not going to give you our personal home phone numbers like a tech support line so you can call and tell us a thread needs to be locked or a bot is roaming around. email, MSN, skype, report, VM, PM, even i have my flavors.me linked so you can reach me in other mediums such as tumblr at my ask box. does anyone take the effort to click that i wonder? perhaps staff can make a public page for a list of all the staff contact services such as MSN, Skype, Tumblr, Emails, etc. but the condition would have to be that when requesting a staff member on these services you must leave your username and reason for communication in your request so we know it's not some random ass person requesting us? yes? even if a report PM, etc. is sent to all staff shouldn't that be what happens? why only reach one when you have the potential to reach a larger majority. that in my mind makes no sense. invisibility should not be the issue here and is obviously being used as a medium to criticize once again staff's misjudgment of members and/or their lack of understanding when in actuality that really isn't the case? perhaps the members should realize that the amount of members to staff ratio also means that things take time? planning events so you don't get bored, making technical changes, discussing further forum updates and the like. whether you like it or not a lot of the changes to the site are under the hood so that everything runs as smoothly as possible.

we are humans just as everyone else here is, not robocop, okay? i have to multitask and respond to people and things get frustrating and while that is our job to juggle things, we also have optimal working conditions. different people work differently and i'm pretty sure that if someone doesn't respond to you right away you can always try someone else. at least make an effort on your part. newer members might not be as comfortable approaching staff but i remember back when i first joined the normies and prems weren't exactly a bunch of roses either. although i later learned that it wasn't exactly them being mean, it was just a form of internet humor you have to learn to get used to (although there are some dicks out there yes mhm yup) staff seemed approachable and things don't always translate well online. i know at least i am better with getting across my happiness or kindness online, but sometimes people are more muted in their emotions, it's not necessarily them trying to put you off. you come across people like that IRL too, not just online so it's something that anyone who interacts with someone must learn.

tl;dr: if you are serious about your suggestion you'll read this. mhm!

(￣(工)￣)ノ°☆.。.:*・°☆​

 

I never quite understood the invisible option of the site, why come on the site...but hide the fact you are, seems silly IMO.

If you're trying for privacy to get something else done, just don't come on the site then.

However that being said people are entitled to their privacy whenever they want, and they shouldn't be forced to show their around at all times, I've never had an issue where I needed a staff and couldn't find one, but that's just me.

I dunno, staff should be allowed to do as they please, but overall i think invisible is silly regardless.

 

Me and my group feels that this is a non-issue, therefore it should be ignored.

 

Pretty much agreeing with Julia here on everything. Also, I am barely talked to by members for any Staff Queries and I am one a great amount of time, so I don't see how it's some one like, for example, Misty's fault for not being online when clearly I am online. Ask me, and i'll do the best in my power to resolve the issues anyone has. I mean seriously, I can't take responsibility for someone not telling me something is wrong.

Anyway to do with the whole invisible thing:
It's a choice, as much as for any member it's a choice. Staff members are just like anyone on here, posting their thoughts/feelings, the only added extra is keeping an eye out to make sure members are being civil and keeping to the Rules of the site.

The responsibility of people's actions is there own, we should not be coddling what members do 24/7 worrying about every decision you guys are gonna make, we should be allowing you guys to be responsible people and make sure what you post is adequate to what is expected of the site. I doubt anyone here wants us to watch everyone all the time like some Big Brother concept.

We are here to manage the problems of the site, to make things better for you guys, to create events and join in when we can. And the fac is WE DO! We are not disconnected from you guys, or don't care we give you a whole section dedicated to ideas you have, we give you events like the KHV awards, Castle Oblivion, Tea Party. Recently we just gave you guys the new service of a KHV Radio, which all staff have had their input into to try and get working, even though a number of us have been busy with real life things.

People have lives, and feelings, if they can't or don't want to deal with online problems because of real life ones, I see no problem in that, it's not their sworn duty to always be available for everyone at all times, or to forgo their own feelings for a members request if they aren't up for it. I don't demand anyone's availability to help me, I request it, and if it is denied then I try and figure it out another way
That is the reason we have Invisible for all members, because sometimes they need to not be talked to when they want to just say hi to one member because they are feeling down and want to talk to a friend and feel better

Volunteers, by right, have no obligation to an employer, it is simply their own choice of how to use their time. To take away that right is likely a breach in human rights, it becomes a sort of slave labour at that point.
We try to promote a free and accessible space for all users, Staff are members too, so yes everyone is thought of.

Basically, I think this isn't much of an issue at the end of it, since someone is almost always on, and there are several ways to contact someone. I'd understand if we were constantly offline or PMing was the only way to contact us, but it's not so yeah we can't make contacting us any more easier, unless you want to move into talking distance with me.

 

I dunno, my only issue and slight as it is, is that staff don't feel as "involved" with the members as they used to.

I get having a life, believe me I do, we all have **** to do, nothing even slightly wrong with that, and the staff do stuff for the forums well enough, like PaW said, they provide events and features to better the site, my only issue is that you never really see the staff post much outside of actually doing their jobs, interacting with other members and such.

We have what, maybe 15 or so staff (Sorry reporters and coders, I don't count you in this), but only maybe 3 or 4 actually post casually on the site, they don't feel like members, but just entities to run the place, no real interaction takes place.

example, I have a suggestion in this very board that's a fairly important thing I would like to think, and it's been up for the better part of 2 days now, and no staff has even posted to share their opinions towards it, with the exception of this very thread, the staff posting in suggestions outside of Misty with a verdict is rare.

It seems silly to say it, but you guys need to...be there more, in a different sense to the way you all are now, you do the moderation part fine, but I feel when you guys don't act like members you miss out on the key things that are crucial to keeping everyone happy.

When I was staff, i'd like to think that I really didn't change much in my posting behaviour around the site, I still talked and laughed and teased members, but I did my job when needed, for the most part you guys should be a bit more social IMO.

 

But if you want us to post like any members would, then you should just let us post when we feel like it. I mean some members just don't post at all but in one section really, most of the time it's the spam zone, and people may never see Staff that post in different sections. Doe that mean that we aren't posting at all? No, it just means we aren't necessarily posting where some members might be posting. It's not like the Spam Zone is obligatory for every member, it's a choice of where you want to post.
Also, should I post in every topic in my moderated section? What if I know nothing or care nothing of the subject? I won't make a relevant post so what's the point?

I mean saying that we should post more is the same as telling any member to post more.
We actively try and encourage normal members to post more around the site, because if they post where posts count, that are gets more activity and more social stuff happening, not to mention the chance of premiumship which encourages a goal to reach, as well as pins that also try to encourage it. But it doesn't mean normal members do, we try to encourage it but if people don't post more then how are we suppose to interact more?
I post threads in the spam zone sometimes but I barely get any replies at other times, does that mean i'm not trying enough to socialise?
Social interactions and activity increase in Staff more if normal members try and do so more.

And it's not like we don't discuss major ideas or suggestions, it's just sometimes we don't feel it relevant to post if we agree with another Staff's suggestions sometimes. I mean do you want 20 (yes, I include Reporters and Coders because their opinions matter as well as anyones) people just quoting another staff member and saying 'I agree with this'? What more is there to say if we have no argument to put across? It's not like all the Staff like discussions anyway, so they just may have an opinion they can't get across and don't feel confident enough to post it across. I mean we are literally just members who think about what we post and sometimes decide not to.

We're just acting like ourselves, would forcing staff to appear when they're online change that at all? IF we don't feel up for ir, then we don't post, like any other member does.
And who are these 4 or 5 staffies that only post? Because I know that loads more post around the site.

 

But you're not the same as the other members, you're the staff of the site, so it doesn't really work that way.

I'm not particularly for the whole "force staff to be visible" thing, I aint against it either, any member should be given the privacy they want, I can understand people's desire for you lot to be constantly visible because yeah the situation of "Oh this persons spamming in the games section, better tell a sta- oh no ones online" can occur, it doesn't much, for the most part you lot have at least one member patrollin' at any given time, it's usually sectional moderators which aren't always useful in the situation, because unfortunately you don't have power everywhere, the global mods aren't as active, but that's to be expected given there's less of them(maybe time for some promotions?).

I'm not saying "Oh you run games, post in every single thread and deal with everyone's questions", that much should be clear. Of course you don't know about every single thing in the section, or even give much of a fuck about the majority of them, I know I didn't, I just made sure my area was clean which is what you lot do, what I'm saying is that staff don't appear as active as they should.

This isn't the case of "oh, Stardust said this idea wont work because of memory limits, I best quote her and say yes that's correct", we get times where just flat out no one posts in a suggestion, point and case Amaury(currently Spyro the Dragon) just bumped a month old suggestion that no staff has even posted in, it should be at least common courtesy for someone to recognise that they've seen this and will even talk to one of the higher up members about if it's at all possible.

Of course I don't expect you to take interest in every single section of the forum, that'd be lunacy, half this forum is about KH, who the hell cares about that any more? All i'm saying is that in the places where the most activity is, Spam, and Discussion(though the latter has become somewhat comical activity lately, with the boundaries of what can be posted there and counting as discussion being silly 'what is your favourite song currently' can honestly be put in the music section.) it would be preferable to see more staff in threads, as opposed to the running gag being "oh no guys, staff are viewing the thread, better play nice".

I'm not calling you all out to try and be needlessly aggressive, I just feel there's not as much interaction between the staff and it's members at times.

 

So we should be treated and act differently? We try and meet a standard that is appropriately professional when the time and but also being true to who we are. But we are people, guys, not some machines, we still deal with things our own way, it's just us being us and I think that isn't taken into account enough.

If a Sec mod is the only one on then we deal with it accordingly anyway. We post or remind people to relax and post appropriately or discuss situations with them or give warnings of behaviour. At worst we can attempt to contact other Staff who are able to get online and deal with it. It is rare that the situation escalates, and I think you guys should be responsible and mature enough to know how to handle a situation by not making it worse or by starting anything in the first place. We trust you guys to deal with things appropriately too, we especially trust veteran members and premium members to know how to appropriately act with people and respond, and they make up about half of the active forum. We try and trust you guy, isn't that what you guys want to be trusted to be responsible like adults? Or do you want us to constantly berate all your actions that we deem inappropriate? We get involved when we believe we have to.

If you guys believe in a suggestion strongly enough, VM, PM or just contact us highlighting it. We don't always look in every section, like you said it'd be lunacy, so if it's that important to you guys, you'll fight for it and you won't sit back and complain that the Staff haven't looked at you're one to yourself or other members. Tell us, inform us.

But if we have nothing to post, we have nothing to post. It's the way of things for all members. I know a number of members that actually start typing a reply but in the end don't feel like it's a worthy post so don't, I do that sometimes too. SO yeah, might wanna post more but it doesn't mean I think what i'm saying is relevant or good. I mean, it's like trying to make small talk, it doesn't always mean you're going to get a great conversation our of someone for asking them how are you.

Telling Staff to post more and be more visible will just mean the quantity of post increases, doesn't mean the quality will improve, hell it'd make me feel constantly awkward if people are like 'You need to post more' just because I said I applied to help moderate the site.

 

Flexible ones, preferably. Reasons that would balance the fact that the staff are still human beings and also come to this website not just as a job for but for fun but also increase approachability.

 

honest opinion: this forum is a bit too large to afford not enforcing this rule. if it were only 3 forums with 2-3 subsections each, it wouldn't matter. staff can solve the issue by consolidating forum sections, but for now, i see no other option but to enforce the rule.

but no lies, being invisible is fun. B)

 

I don't support this. What I do support is a full staff PM. One place where you send a message and whoever is on staff at the time responds to it.

Not to say I disagree with your idea, but I won't back it.

 

I will definitely look into that. In the mean time guys, do not be afraid to use the report feature even for things as small as wanting your own thread locked. It's the best solution at the moment for us to quickly act on it.

 

My quick two cents on posting in suggestions. If I don't like an idea but can't say it actively breaks something then we often meet a storm of how we should listen to members and we are too disjointed etc. So I tend not to post in suggestions that I mildly disagree with. Admittedly though it is not fair to members to have suggestions die a quiet death without staff input. Could I just ask that members refrain from using the fact that they suggested it as leverage unless they can provide evidence that a clear majority of active users want it? I mean, I don't want to push this so far as to say things should be denied unless we think they would be useful; but they take work to implement, many add to staff workload at least slightly, add ons don't always play nice and even ones that integrate cleanly now might not later, etc. So I don't want to say "sure why not?" to everything.

 

Alrighty, I was asleep while most of this went down, but now that I've caught up, here's my take on this.

For starters, I am/was one of the invisible peeps, and I do have my reasons for it. I've been at a pre-college program the past month and have been out for pretty much most of the day (7am - 11pm, sometimes 1am) everyday.

"But Plums, you've been invisible before that!"

And I know I have been. I'm mostly invisible on KHV mainly because sometimes I really cannot deal with conflicts. It's no secret that lately I've been very flighty whenever things have popped off, and have barely made as many posts as I used to in threads. The climate of the site has been pretty taxing on me emotionally, and at a certain point you just have to stop letting it get to you and take the backseat for a while.

I'm going to college soon along with a majority of my friends, and I want to spend all the time with them that I can. And I can't be as happy as I should be if I'm stressed out about KHV workings all the time. Invisibility has been, for me lately, an escape so I can relax and focus on matters offline and just, well, be happy.

I am not speaking for the rest of the staff when I say this, and honestly, there should be no need for me to. They are their own people, just like I am my own person. I've never said this before, but it is really irritating, both work-wise and personally, when you get lumped in with a group of people under one sweeping generalization. It's hard to work and to talk to people knowing that they only see you as the color of your name, rather than who is wearing the color, and to deal with the "ALL STAFF DO NOT TALK TO THE SITE!!!" when I've been in these group convos for months now.

I'm not saying that communication is all good and dandy at the moment. I know that I (again, personally) have trouble initiating conversations. If I do, either I know you pretty well or I have a question/concern/something to say. I'd also like to acknowledge this:

Communication is a two way street. The "commoners" haven't exactly put forth a tremendous effort to get to know people (i.e. me as that's the only person I can judge by) either. I am piss poor at talking at times, which is a thing I want to (and plan to) change in the future, but if there is no effort from the other half either, then nothing will get accomplished and things will remain the same.

I think that's all the major points I had to reply to for now.

My only remaining question is what you all mean by staff being more "involved and active?" Not being a jerk here, but genuinely wondering because my view of it (posting around and being on MSN and such) may not be the same as yours.

Also, I concede my invisibility (for the moment unless something comes up). And I'd rather the replies to this go Plums, the Member and not Staff Member Plums, the Staff Member.




Furthermore,

Also, not to call anyone out, but would appreciate it if replies like these stop. These are what make me go invisible and unsociable in the first place. They're really passive-aggressive; plus, no one likes the job half-done.