Dream Drop Distance Xehanort's Infinite Loop

Discussion in 'Kingdom Hearts HD II.8: Final Chapter Prologue' started by GhettoXemnas, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. RifleRiku Traverse Town Homebody

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    It isn't going to be another Xehanort doing the same thing. It's still the same old Xehanort. Think of it this way. Young Xehanort goes forward in time because his future self brought him there. As long as he returns Master Xehanort can still exist. It's one person but he is just moving through time. Since Young Xehanort forgets everything when he goes back he just becomes Master Xehanort.
     
  2. GhettoXemnas literally dead inside

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    Did you even read the first two sentences of the post you quoted? I said he's different in the sense that when they are both standing in the same place in the same time they exist as two separate bodies. When he goes back home, yes he is the same Xehanort. I have been saying that. But what no one seems to be picking up in this thread is that if time travel is introduced then things like the present and past are all relative to who we are referring to and when YX returns to his present, which is essentially the past for everyone else, he will proceed to live life there and do everything while in MX's present he will be defeated so in another time it's all happening all over again.

    And now I'm done with this thread because I'm sick of explaining the same theory over and over again.
     
  3. RifleRiku Traverse Town Homebody

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    What do you mean by another time? It'll be the same time as before except he will have a different role. By the time he gets to that point it'll be everyone else's past.
     
  4. Newguy120 Moogle Assistant

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    Just in case anyone else reads this thread, here's my theory on it, beginning with this diagram.

    [​IMG]

    This timeline is in reference strictly to time and Xehanort as an entity, not as a "body" partially or completely inhabited by him.

    As we can see, there is a loop. However, this loop does not create an alternate timeline. This is due to the Memory Loss, which is the defense mechanism against just that. Because Young Xehanort's actions affect only the future and not his present (our past), the timeline can continue uninterrupted and not split. By the time we get to the end of KH3D, all of these events have already happened. Therefore, unless somebody were to go back and interrupt this stable flow of time (which can't happen due to the restrictions placed on time travel in KH), no crazy time paradoxes or infinite loops based on alternate time-lines or alternate versions of Xehanort as a being rather than multiple bodies should occur. Theoretically, we shouldn't even have to deal with time travel anymore since it's in such a nice little loop, and we can move chronologically into KH3 moving simply forward into our time line.

    P.S.
    Even if YMX doesn't return at the end of KH3D and in fact becomes one of the 13 Xehanorts we will deal with in KH3, that simply expands the range of the preset loop in the timeline. The fact remains that YMX will forget all happenings, and due to this fact only the future is affected. It's kind of similar to Steins;Gate, in where the version of the main character from the future tricks the version of the version of himself from past into beleiving that things haven't changed, even though they have, and therefore the timeline can proceed to a point it can move forward while changing the future without changing the past.
     
  5. A Zebra Chaser

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    Here's the thing though, that's not a LOOP
    In order for it to be a loop, both ends need to connect, but they don't. If it were loop, what would happen is Young Xehanort goes forward in time, does what he needs to, and returns to the moment BEFORE he traveled to the future, thus causing it to loop. And if this were case, what would essentially happen is Xehanort would age instantaneously to the point where he's too old to carry out the action, or dies
     
  6. AzzyFox Destiny Islands Resident

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    It's not an infinite loop.

    1) Young Xehanort grew up into an old man.
    2) Old Xehanort possessed Terra.
    3) Terranort split into Ansem and Xemnas.
    4) Ansem went back in time and possessed Riku.
    5) Riku defeated Ansem.
    6) Sora and Riku defeated Xemnas.
    5) Following the defeat of both Ansem and Xemnas, Old Xehanort returned to being human (leaving the fate of Terra a mystery).

    While it's necessary for Xehanort to bring his past forms from different times to bring his plan to fruition, Xehanort's twisting and turning eventually came to a halt when his Heartless and Nobody were slain. Defeat Old Xehanort and you defeat him for good.
     
  7. Vagineer Hollow Bastion Committee

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    Yeah.... it's not a loop. There was a loop before the events of KHII, but it ended when Ansem, Seeker of Darkness and Xemnas are slain. Once Old Man Xehanort is dead, he's gone for good.
     
  8. Ars Nova Merry Christmas dickheads

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    I'm sincerely glad that everyone took the time to break it down, but really, the problem is solved from the second Master Xehanort says this:

    "All of this was decided. My twelve selves would welcome me here on this day, when I would return a complete person. It is the future which lies beyond my sight."

    As of KH3D, he's hit the end of his time traveling shenanigans. He preordained everything up to that moment to ensure not only that the final clash between light and dark occurred, but that he was at the helm of the dark forces; and now he's spent. No more stable loops. No more placing himself at temporal landmarks. No nothing. Now it's just him and his many clones, rarin' to duke it out with the guardians of light. Everyone who was jumping through time is done as of the end of Dream Drop Distance. They're done their jobs and slotted neatly into the timeline, with little to nothing left unaccounted for.

    The only thing that confuses me is why Master Xehanort (implicatively) refers to his elderly form as his "complete" self. You'd think he would reserve that title for the version of him possessing Terra. The only thing I can figure is that the elderly Master Xehanort we see in 3D is the one possessing Terra, and the possession is simply so complete that he no longer needs to retain Terra's form. Seekernort did something similar to Riku towards the end of the first Kingdom Hearts, eventually gaining enough strength to take on a unique form and obscure that of his host. So it can happen.

    But then that raises the question of how Xemnas and Seekernort can exist alongside that version, who is the whole and complete form of those constituent parts. Well... It doesn't so much raise the question as magnify it; the question was already raised, since Sora slapped the sh#% out of both of those guys already and they should be dead. In fact, that was clearly the catalyst for Master Xehanort's resurrection. But then... why are they still around? Is Xehanort that much of a baller, that he can just recreate them with a thought? Or do they come from something - or someone - else?
     
  9. RifleRiku Traverse Town Homebody

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    They were brought forward from a point before they died. At least that's what's assumed if it hasn't been confirmed.
     
  10. Ars Nova Merry Christmas dickheads

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    Then I wonder how he was planning to count them among his number in the final battle. They'd have to return to their proper times before long. That leads me to think that the union ceremony in 3D was supposed to serve some purpose beyond getting all the seekers of darkness in one room... which I already kind of suspected anyway. That may also mean that we're going to see quite a few more Organization members than first expected return as seekers, and bearers of Xehanort's heart.
     
  11. A Zebra Chaser

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    That's the general assumption. But it kinda contradicts what Xehanort said about people being unable to be sent FORWARD in time...


    I'd assume that the Master Xehanort is the complete form because it's the only Xehanort that's truly just Xehanort. Everyone else so far, besides Young Xehanort (if even that) is reliant on a second part. Xehanort mixed with Terra and Eraqus is not a truly 'complete' Xehanort
     
  12. Ars Nova Merry Christmas dickheads

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    That's true. I guess what I meant to ask is, how is he complete now if the MX we're seeing is from the BbS timeline? He can't have felt very complete at the time, what with the churning in his loins for possessing some fresh-faced youngblood and extending his life.
     
  13. A Zebra Chaser

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    I wouldn't so much call that incomplete as "fearing death by old age"
     
  14. Ars Nova Merry Christmas dickheads

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    So what would've changed in Dream Drop Distance? And how would he be "returning" a complete person if he'd never really gone anywhere? It's exceedingly odd wording if all he did was jump forwards through time.
     
  15. A Zebra Chaser

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    My guess is that he's jumping right to the end, so he doesn't have to worry about dying of old age because it won't take THAT long to achieve his goals. He's still spry enough to hold his own against three keyblade wielders, after all (and it's pretty clear he was intentionally holding back)
     
  16. Ars Nova Merry Christmas dickheads

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    Then that means he was only there to induct the last of the vessels of his heart, and then he'd have to go back. Which makes sense if there's more to the ceremony than a bunch of conformists in one room, but then one must ask... where on the timeline does this happen for him? And yes, I know he would forget the encounter anyway, if that's how time travel works in Kingdom Hearts; but when he arrived in KH3D, he knew Mickey and the three children whose lives he'd ruined, and furthermore how he did so. He wouldn't have known all of that before the events of BbS, and I doubt he'd have had time for... well, a trip through time after the fact. Then again, he is offscreen for a while after the exam...
     
  17. A Zebra Chaser

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    The thing is, he could have been informed that his plans succeed when he arrived in the future.
    But knowing how KH likes to take moments and add twists, I'm going to go ahead and assume this happened when Xehanort released his heart at Terra, or when Terranort tried to release his heart
     
  18. Ars Nova Merry Christmas dickheads

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    I guess so. I dunno. My writer's instinct tells me that a distinction like that would be in the game if it was true. But I have to remember not everyone approaches the craft with such precision.
     
  19. A Zebra Chaser

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    Your first warning should have been the fact that you're dealing with Kingdom Hearts
     
  20. Loxare Hollow Bastion Committee

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    I'm a bit short on time, so I didn't read most of the other comments. Sorry if I'm repeating anything that was said previously. I'll edit after work.

    Like GhettoXemnas said, MX went back in time to bring YMX to the future, who then went back to his own time, lost all his memories, grows up to be the MX we all know and love, who then goes back in time to bring YMX to the future. However, I don't think this makes him unkillable. Once MX goes back to his own time, he is then able to be killed, because he is out of the time loop. In the end of DDD, YMX calls MX his "most future self". But this self has a future before him. He will, at some point, go back in time, then be returned to his own time. Once he is returned to his own time, time is set on it's path and he is out of the loop. Once he's out of the loop, he is vulnerable to be killed. All this means is that it was impossible for him to be killed anytime before the events of DDD. TVA were almost destined to fail in a way, because he couldn't die. KHIII however, is completely unknown territory. He can die here.

    I made a picture to help illustrate my point.
    [​IMG]