What are your viewpoints on abortion?

Dayum ***** you just went full ******. How the hell can you support suicide or be against it when you'd have no choice on the matter? It's a single persons decision whether they want to off themselves or not.

Well I'm sure the old person lived a long and healthy life and if they want to end it there that's their choice/problem. Plus it would get rid of a weak link in society since I'm sure if that unlucky old person became ill the family would have to find a way to pay off all those horrid hospital bills.

Looking at it from a greater-good for society perspective, of course. how the hell is this still here?

 

It kind of is.

Too lazy; didn't open.

I don't support every decision of suicide, though I'm glad we have a choice.
Just as I don't support every decision of abortion, while I'm still pro-choice.
See what I did there?

Except a fetus is not a child, the idea of consuming human meat isn't easily digested by the public (pardon the pun), and this isn't 1729. Try again.

 

Basically, guy mad at girlfriend because she won't get an abortion. So what does he do? He gets a gun, holds it her head, and makes her drive to the abortion clinic to have an abortion. She slips the receptionist a note, and is saved by the police, who the receptionist calls while in a back room claiming to be getting ready for the procedure. The way you put it, it seemed like you would be willing to kill your girlfriend and face murder charges if she refused get the abortion. True or false?

"People won't like it"+"Not that time period" doesn't mean it won't be good for cutting down on the population AND feeding the population we have now. It's like saying say putting a cutlass into your ribcage won't kill you because people don't like cutlasses (preferring guns) and they're outdated

 

*read half the thread*
This is good for my paper.

Meh, I think it depends on a lot of certain factors.

 

Explain .

 

Spam zone true.

But there you have it. It's a choice that all of us should be allowed to make. If you want to eat your own arm because you would die if you didn't, then I wouldn't stop you. Heck, I wouldn't even be too shocked if you killed and ate your own newborn. Give one half to mom and one half to dad for all I care. As long as no one else knows or cares about him, fine.
Killing someone else's kid, however, makes other people's lives miserable. Forcefully taking a baby away to feed someone else brings grief to those whose child has been taken away. That's the fundamental difference.
Killing your own kid does not. The parents consented to its death. The baby, you ask? I don't think he'd feel too miserable. Which brings us back to my very first point. If I had been aborted so many years ago, I wouldn't have minded. I had no sense of self; I didn't give a **** about "alive" or "dead".

Nor would a fetus, I imagine. In fact, matters are even less complilcated if an unborn is involved. A fetus cannot live independently from its mother. It is her property (along with the father, who helped conceiving it). Even if someone would care (the woman's mother who is hoping for a grandchild, perhaps), they have absolutely no say in the matter. A fetus belongs to its parents. They may choose what they want to do with it, whether that includes cherishing it and the child it becomes, or pulling it out and nailing it to their wall.

That must be the silliest analogy I've heard in months. Reread what I told you above, and find out for yourself just how far you're off the mark.

 

So basically, you're okay with the people not getting abortions as long as it's not your child, am I right?

And the silliness of that analogy was intentional. I was only trying to screw with you so you'd explain yourself better. I failed.

 

Someone else can't abort his child.

 

Considering he's not the one carrying the child, he can't abort his own child without getting into serious trouble either. Just saying. If you're prochoice, you also have to respect the woman's right NOT to abort.

 

I'm okay with people not getting abortions period.
I'm also okay with people getting abortions.
Being pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean that you're pro-abortion. It means believing that people should be allowed to decide what they do with their own life as long as they don't cause needless harm to conscious creatures.

Which a fetus isn't. The Animal Welfare lecture I attended today summed it up pretty well.
They spoke of a system used to define consciousness, using several criteria (ranked from low-leveled to high-leveled). Even the lowest-level criterium, attention, is absent in a fetus. Even a fly can focus its attention on a destination, and I have no qualms with swatting them if they annoy me either. Do you?
And in case you were wondering what the other criteria were, two of the others were "potential of using abstract ideas and symbols" and "anticipation", neither of which a fetus can achieve in its state.

Argument of authority.
Endgame, Jet.

Not an excuse. You could have at least used a valid silly analogy. Also, don't blame me for a lack of comprehension.

 

You have said in this thread, and I quote, "No child I conceive will ever see the light of day even if I have to hang my girlfriend upside-down and drag it out with a fishing rod."
I can therefore conclude that you are okay with people not getting abortions if and only if the child being brought into the world is not yours. Which means that you do not respect your girlfriend/wife/benefited friend/etc.'s right not to abort.

Yet you neglect to realize that not conscious doesn't mean not human, which is my criterion for whether or not it's okay to kill. A fly isn't human, nor do I connect with it on a "personal" level (as with, say, a dog), and therefore am okay with killing it. While a dog is okay to kill in my opinion, I would never do it and would do everything feasible to prevent it. A fetus is human and therefore, in my opinion, morally wrong to kill. Your "consciousness" argument is also invalid because the fetus, unlike the fly or the dog, has the potential for consciousness. Think of a dolphin. A dolphin is self aware, just like a human. It is conscious. The only reason that it is amoral to kill it is because it is not human, although I would certainly kill a dog instead of a dolphin on the premise that a dolphin is self conscious and therefore is closer to human than a dog, albeit not in anatomy. While I respect your opinion, I have to say that because it contradicts the opinion which I have known to be right for my entire life, I consider it to be wrong.And I do agree that abortion ought to be a legal right, much in the same way that capital punishment, if legal, should be administered swiftly and privately if the criminal wishes it.

Not valid eh? You specifically argued that it wouldn't be effective because people don't like the idea and it is not a time when such a solution would be proposed, even in satire. Ergo, it is perfectly valid if you meant what I thought you meant.

 

Abortion is good for the environment, it gives people a reason to keep their old coat hangers instead of throwing them out into the wild

 

Screw the coat hangers. They can learn to fend for themselves. And do you really think I care about the environment? Do you know how many polyesters died for the shirt I'm wearing?

 

Only if you have no choice in the matter other than that I'm against it.

 

It was a starting joke. When you called me out to it earlier, I even said "Spam Zone true" to make it blatantly obvious. I'll do you a favor and use clean, short words that can only be interpreted literally from now on. You don't even have to thank me for it.

Not caring is not the same as not realizing. By which I mean I have always realized this, but didn't give a flying **** about it. Just saying.

My consciousness argument is perfectly valid since the "potential for something" isn't an argument at all. I don't care what it will become. What matters is what it is.

Wrong again. I didn't mean to say it wouldn't be effective. I meant it wouldn't be quite realizable in practice, which is reason enough to abandon the idea altogether. Your word twisting was good for laughs in the beginning, but you may stop now.