Kingdom Hearts II Was Sora justified? *Spoiler*

Repliku has removed Demyx from the picture, by proving that he had a chance to turn back. Also, remember, nobodies do not feel emotion. So Demyx attacked Sora for no reason! I think that he was just hot-headed like Roxas. (either that, or Sora's heart affected him like it did Roxas, Axel and Namine.)

As fot the rest... Axel was never attacked by Sora (well, three times if you count Castle oblivion and Roxas.) proving that Sora was not only on a killing Nobodies spree.

 

They didnt activly send heartless to attack people until Sora took the stand which said "I would rather not kill heartless, and hurt you, than kill heartless and help you."

Previously, the heartless were there because of Pete and Malificent.

Demyx did everything you could to avoid the fight, and Sora taunted him. Honestly, if your tring to avoid a fight, and he draws out his weapon, and taunts you there is going to be a fight.

Also, the key line was when Sora accused him of not having a heart. Which showed that Sora truly would not have sympathy for them, even if they were truly good guys.

Also, he couldnt have simply run. Anyone whos in a millitary like Organization who runs in cowardice is charged with desertion.

Yeah, he ran from Hades, but that was because Hades is literally unbeatable in the underworld to anyone but a god, or a psuedo god like Hercules.



The only timesAxel met Sora post Castle Oblivion was when they met at Hallow Bastion, which was extraordinarily breif, and when Axel saved him from the Nobody ambush, very late in the game.

In each case, they didnt interact long enough for Sora to attack him, but in either case, I dont think Sora wouldnt have attacked him, since Sora has the miraculous ability to show the most empathy for those who screw with him the most, IE: Namine, but not care for those who need him.

 

Poor Pete... I forgot he even existed till you mentioned him >_>

 

Okay, a few points.

1. Taunts you? Pah. That is stuff for emotions. You have just told me how logical they are, how clever they are. I doubt they would react to a taunt.

2. Sure Sora drew his weapon. If you haven't notice, generally all non-disney/square beings (minus Kairi and TT population) have thrown themselves at Sora trying to kill him for the last game or two. I think he is allowed to draw a weapon, don't you?

3. The taunts were in return. Sora is not perfect. Demyx has just been going off at him "Roxas, come back to us!" "Roxas, why did you betray us?" "Roxas, I love you, please come here and give me a hug!" Ugh. I would have said the same things as well, just to shut that bloody water being up!

4. Running as cowardice? But you said the org would not want to harm Sora prior to his "no I will not kill heartless for you" speech. surely Demyx would have been allowed to run? The rest of the org certainly did whenever Sora ran up to them and asked to fight them. (first world visits) Also he constantly said "I told them they sent the wrong guy..." It sounds to me as if he was sent to remove Sora. Sorry, but Demyx could have run, he chose to fight Sora.

5. The org's revenge? Even when at half health, the Org just delayed Sora while trying to fulfill their goal. The only time the Org purely put all their energies into killing Sora was at the end, where Xemnas knew all was lost.

 

Demyx could have ran. If he was going to any way, why not? It wouldn't be desertion in that case. That makes no sense. He got called out, he turned and responded. He had the full choice to do what he wanted. He went with a reaction. He even had cue cards with what he should be doing...so how is it the Org planned nothing ahead of time? They knew they were going to run into Sora.

I'm still not seeing any shred of proof at all that Sora -started- this -war- and that the Org were not manipulating the much of the whole thing. Also, for those who said that the Org was just moving Heartless around and such and what's wrong with that....
If I go to some nation and plant a bunch of land mines and they kill people...am I guilty? Am I guilty if I go out and collect organs from those people who died out there since they don't need them anymore? The Org is -not- innocent and they were not just doing some small crime here. I really think the Disney must have covered up the plot a little too well for kids because the points really are watered down and getting missed entirely.

 

Wasn't Demyx after Roxas and that he thnks Sora is Roxas.

 

Nice post Repliku, although I think I said the same sort of thing while you were typing.

And Xekushi, Demyx was talking to Sora, as he knew Roxas was in Sora. The point was that Demyx was really pissing Sora off.

Consider it, you have just Awoken in a strange place, with no memories of the past year. Now you find your friends are still missing. Then you find a new enemy, who talk down to you more than the last bunch. Finally, you get called a strange name multiple times. I think you would start to make irrational decisions.

 

Yeah seems we did say near the same thing. One thing we can't know for certain either is that if Roxas was at all mentally aware of what Sora was going through, because at moments Sora did react to Roxas's memories and not get why, is that Roxas did -not- want to be with the Organization any longer. Sora didn't know who Roxas was and all, but it could be that part of his stance against them was because of Roxas not trusting them so Sora wouldn't. I still, even saying that, do not see where Sora was really out of line that badly. I do agree that with Demyx he could have just let the guy go, but eh, Demyx also could have ran off and ignored Sora too. Sora and Roxas...and Riku, Namine and Kairi were not perfect. Yeah, so Sora called Demyx out. Sora had to fight. He had no choice in the matter. If he wanted to meet the threats head on, who would not after all the games the Dark Council played and then the Organization? I would be up there too saying 'bring it on' because that's what the Org was doing any way.

 

Oh, another thing, if the Org was out for revenge on Sora, surely they would have done so as soon as Axel got back and told them that Sora would have killed him when he threatened to kill Namine?

 

1. The taunt showed Sora's opinion of Nobodies. He didnt respect them at all, he viewed them as less then him.

2. Good point, I can't negate this one.

3. LOL at the hug. But, that would make me more curious rather than angry. It would anyone. Sora has been in more confusing situations before, without being angry.

4. Repliku and you are the ones saying that Demyx was planning on killing Sora the whole time. And his mission was to see if he could reach Roxas, not kill Sora.

5. The Org didnt want revenge, but they wanted to force Sora's hand. He could have just cooperated with them and they would have no reason to use heartless at all. But Sora, stubornly would rather PEOPLE be killed, and know hes not helping the Org, than Heartless be killed, and know hes helping the Org.

If he ran in fear, that would be desertion, if he ran because the mission failed, that would be incompetence. Incompetence is not as bad as desertion.

The cue cards said "Use aggresion" which does not mean "Kill him." Your the one who said they wanted to use him, and would rather deal with Sora than Roxas. Why would they kill someone they wanted to use.

Sora was the first one to take the stand, he wanted them dead, so much so he was willing to risk the lives of innocent people. IE: Letting Heartless live, and wanting the Org to attack him at Hallow bastion, when he should have been tring to save his friends.

Um, they didnt bring the land mines, Pete brought the land mines, and spread them around. They initially just picked up the Organs of the dead people.

Its not until Sora said he didnt want to kill heartless anymore that they actually started manipulating heartless. Disney didnt cover it up too well, its just that Nomura wrote bad guys that were not bad enough.

I think the biggest irony, is that Pete and Malificent did more damage than the Org, yet they go unpunished, and are casted in the Anti-Hero roll, rather than the Villain.


Edit: If you can watch both of these videos without crying, then you have no heart...

http://video.kh-vids.net/recentvideos/7/5e506bff-c062-4455-9300-9a0200a40329.htm

http://video.kh-vids.net/recentvideos/33/870d534f-b2dd-413a-9d8c-9a0a0180a8dd.htm

 

Are you going off memory for the fight? I rewatched it. This is the talk:

Sora (accusing voice): Didn't we catch you messing around in the underworld?

Donald: Scram!

Sora: How did a wimp like you get into organization XIII? I bet you can't even fight!

Donald: But we can!

(weapon drawn)

(Demyx turns away)

Demyx: I knew they picked the wrong guy...

Sora: What's going on?

Donald: Remember, the organization is made up of nobodies.

Sora (enlightened voice): Right, No hearts!

Demyx: Oh we do too have hearts, don't be mad.

(Demyx turns around)

Demyx: Silence Traitor!

Fight initiated.

Also, Demyx appeared right in front of him, I do not think it was to hug htm. It was to tie him up, and prevent him from getting to the heartless battle. Sora was stressed, and got rid of him.

 

Yeah, you dont think thats wrong?

Its obvious Demyx didnt want to fight. Sora obviosly did. A fight happened, and Demyx died. The fight happened unnesesarily.

Also, why would Demyx want to delay him? Isnt killing heartless what the Org wanted all along?

Sora didnt get rid of him because he was stressed, he got rid of him because he wanted too, as was evident after the fight,

Sora: Anyone else want to be next? *Stomping feet*

Donald: Sora, dont antagonize them.

Goofy: We gotta help our friends first.

This shows that at that point, Sora wasnt thinking of his friends.

Didnt we settle this already?

 

Okay, Sora screaming "Who's next!" was a bit excessive. Also, so Sora did not think of his friends. Oh no! What shall we do? I know, as this is talking about Sora being justified, lets decide to just ignore it. We are not talking about Sora and his love of friends. Besides, being reminded that he needed to look after friends once does not mean killing Nobodies is really bad.

Demyx was clearly given orders to remove Sora. Why else appeared there? I restate my point, it was not to give him a hug. Also, he was not trying to reach Roxas. Axel was given orders to remove Roxas. I doubt they would worry about recovering him.

Besides, if Demyx did not want to fight, what should Sora do? say "Hi Demyx, I will catch up with you later over a cup of tea, okay?" Them run past? Like what you said before, he would be branded a traitor if he did not complete his mission. Running away is much the same as letting him pass.

 

The Real Scene

Actually the scene went like this:

Sora and the others are running and they stop as Demyx appears to block their way.

Demyx: Hey, you guys are looking lively!

Donald: Scram!

Sora: Didn't we catch you messing around in the Underworld? How'd a wimp like you get into Organization XIII?

Demyx cringes.

Sora: I bet you can't even fight.

Donald: Yeah, but we can!

Demyx regains composure.

Demyx: You shouldn't judge anyone by appearance.

Sora and co. draw weapons, ready to fight their way through. Demyx's taken back by their willingness to throw down if necessary.

Demyx: Ooooh. I told them they were sending the wrong guy...

Sora: Who is this kook?

Goofy: Remember, the Organization's made up of Nobodies.

Sora: Right. No hearts!

Demyx: Oh, we do too have hearts! Don't be mad...

Donald: You can't trick us!

Demyx regains his composure.

Demyx: Silence, traitor.

Demyx summons his sitar. Battle commences. Demyx loses. Disapparates.

Sora still feeling the adrenaline from the battle.

Sora: Anyone from the Organization who'd like to be next?

Donald: Hey Sora! Don't antagonize them!

Goofy: Yeah, we gotta go help out our friends first!

Sora looks embarrassed.

Sora: Oh. Sorry.

Donald: Then let's go!

About to leave, then Mickey finds them.

 

Although I really don't like Sora, I have to say he was completely justified. While somebody else might have been more successful in talking some of the Nobodies out what the were doing (I think Kairi might have for some reason), you've got to give the kid credit for trying. It's true that some of the Nobodies were only doing what they did because they didn't want to go against the Org. I guess them not having hearts, Organization XIII was a place that they... sort of?....belonged. It's kind of strange. Usually that's the kind of reason someone with feelings would have...
Sora was really harsh with Demyx though. Even when he stole that stone, you could tell that he really didn't want to. To me, he seemed like he would have been persuaded rather easily, as opposed to Xaldin and Xemnas. But Sora acted really cold (Donald didn't help much either), I think he may have made Demyx a bit angry. (Don't say anything about Nobodies not being able to be angry - look at Vexen, Larxene, and Axel. Especially Vexen. That guy had a temper.)

 

Anger is emotion.

Also, does it matter if I got the thing a bit wrong? It still proves that when Demyx said "I know they sent the wrong guy" he meant to harm Sora.

Now, I think Demyx was allowed to be attacked. Can you see him letting Sora run past? Never get between Sora and his pals. (sure at the end he decided to let out a taunt, then he remembered his friends.)

Demyx I think, is out of the way. On to the more important Org members.

 

I think he did the right thing, 'cause the Organization did try to kill him...

 

True, but Iscp's argument is they only started when he killed Demyx, and that is simply not true.

 

My arguement is that Sora instigated a war which was unjustified. The only thing the Org wanted prior to this was for Sora to kill heartless, which is hardly wrong.

Demyx death was the defining moment.

 

But I ask again, why would Demyx appear there? The Org knows Sora has a temper from Axel's account of Castle Oblivion, and the year with Roxas.

Demyx appearing there and greeting them like old friends was an action purely to rile Sora.

Also, the stuff the Org did was not related to Sora directly. They attacked Beast, Jack Sparrow and Mulan, not to mention they summoned heartless everywhere too. If this was their version of war, then they are highly illogical. "We are pissed at Sora for killing the sap Demyx. I know! to get back at him, let's turn a Dragon to the power of heartless!"

In addition, correct me if I am wrong, but don't you visit Beast's castle before killing Demyx? Xaldin was messing with Beast's mind.

And, why shouldn't Sora kill them? They are remnants of those who made heartless. No regret from them at all. Why let them carry out their plan? They sealed DiZ away, and were rather nasty to Sora.

Plus, letting the people who unleashed a tide of heartless create a massive kingdom hearts while they say vaguely, "we will make a new world!" would not smart, even for a dunce like Sora.

You say how they would let Sora kill heartless in peace. Well once he finished, what happened? They tried to kill him.

They were not co-operating with Sora EVER. I cannot stress this enough. They were using him. Using him!

They manipulated him countless times at Castle Oblivion. Also, half of these were loyal to the Org, so yeah. True the ones loyal to the Org were not doing anything to Sora, but they more than made up with Riku.