The Old Disney

So, I was watching The Color of Friendship on Disney the other day and it made me realize just how underrated some Disney movies really are. What it also made me realize was just how different Disney is now. There used to be shows like Boy Meets World and Lizzie McGuire that weren’t afraid to address those awkward or tough subjects like puberty, self-image issues, sex, eating disorders, and growing into a mature, responsible adult. Now, even the language used is different.


In my personal opinion, children’s shows on Disney, like on other channels that target adolescents, now sugar code or avoid a lot of topics they didn’t used to (not that I discredit the shows they do have that address a few of those problems). I also feel, sometimes they focus on things that aren’t all that important in life, or at least they don’t address many problems adolescents do face today like they used to with older shows and movies and I know some of that has to do with times changing, however adolescents do still face many of the problems they did then. Why do you think that is? Do you agree? Do you disagree? If so, why?

 

LOL, not all cartoons are supposed to be about real life experiences.

 

That's not what she's arguing. She's talking about how as a channel (and arguably, a company), Disney has drastically decreased this kind of thing for the sake of humor. And not all of the programming she's talking about are cartoons; the minority of them are, in fact.

 

not talking about the cartoons, this isn't cartoon network, correct?[DOUBLEPOST=1406422224][/DOUBLEPOST]

thanks

 

Amaury, sit down.

Cartoons are a way for children to learn how stuff works and how they should behave in a given setting. A way for children and teenagers to interact with one another. The cartoons my Niece, who is 5 watches, teaches her stuff like sharing and being nice/helpful to others. They can teach kids to stand up to bullies and to ask for help.

I can remember watching shows as a tween and teenager and learning things. Sure, not all cartoons and tv shows have unspoken lessons but a lot of them did. Networks like Disney and Nick have thrown these out the window in favor of random humor to attract 13 year old boys. Part of this is the reason shows like TRON: Uprising and Young Justice got cancelled. The other part is that girls started watching and you can't market to girls.

Televison as a whole has been in a state of decline.

 

I agree. It is. I think as time goes on, people are less willing to address certain topics on kid friendly channels, b/c they society frowns upon it. Or they think that they may be making the wrong decision by addressing it, as far as raising children goes.

 

Oh, I can market to girls.

 

Shows, then.

Cartoon Network isn't the only channel that has cartoons...

Kids shouldn't be influenced by what they see in shows, especially violence and the like, and parents should teach them this. And even so, there are some shows that have no lessons in them whatsoever, and that's okay.

Oh, no. Wanting to attract teenagers to watch shows. The horror.

Wrong. That's only an opinion, not a fact.

 

Amaury, you're completely missing the point to defend bad programming choices just because you enjoy it. I enjoy bad music, but that doesn't make Ke$ha any better just because I'm a fan.

 

There's no such thing as bad programming. It's all down to personal opinions.

 

Then there's no such thing as good programming.

 

Exactly.

Let's say Nickelodeon's schedule is always this:

• George Lopez: 12:00 AM - 3:00 AM
• The Fresh Prince of Bel Air: 3:00 AM - 6:00 AM
  
• SpongeBob SquarePants: 6:00 AM - 9:00 AM
• Rugrats: 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM
• The Fairly OddParents: 12:00 PM - 3:00 PM
• Avatar: The Last Airbender: 3:00 PM - 6:00 PM
• The Legend of Korra: 6:00 PM - 9:00 PM
• The Angry Beavers: 9:00 PM - 12:00 AM

There are 50 parents: 45 don't mind their kids watching those because they consider it good programming, but there are five who think it's bad programming because of all the violence.

So, good and bad programming exist based on individuals' opinions, but from a neutral point of view, there are so such things as good and bad programming.

 

still only talking about disney

 

Find then, there's programming with effort and programming that is just flat out lazy. It's okay to like or dislike both; I'm someone who definitely favors something that has effort put into it. The shows that are on there that pander to certain audiences, I find those as lazy because they refuse to take any risks and reach for low hanging fruit.

If people who are working behind the scenes aren't going to put any effort into making something meaningful, then I'm not wasting my time watching it.

Will the programming that goes for the low hanging fruit get stronger ratings; most likely. A lot of people see television as something to put on and be completely meaningless. While there is a loud outcry for people to give thought provoking things a chance and call out lazy creators on their BS, the mass audience doesn't care.

It's the same reason why Edge of Tomorrow, a smart science fiction film, which got great feedback from critics, and is probably one of the best of the year is one of the biggest financial flops of the summer while Transformers 4, a film that doesn't try at all, and got terrible reviews, is probably the highest grossing film of the year.

 

I did not say anything about violence in the section of my post you quoted here. All I said was that my 5 year old Niece is watching shows that teach her things. And that the same can be applied to older kids.

Now you're just being rude and taking my words out of context. 13 year old boys were the target audience for TRON: Uprising. One of the reasons it was moved to a different time slot and then pulled entirely was that young adult women in their twenties were watching it. Which is hypocritical considering a cartoon marketed toward young girls and then watched by adult men in their twenties is praised.

I didn't say it was a fact. But if you insist.

It is my OPINION that television and media as a whole is on the decline.

 

Same example applies. Just replace the shows with Disney shows.[DOUBLEPOST=1406426186][/DOUBLEPOST]

Then please elaborate in the future and make it clear what you're talking about to prevent confusion.

 

yeah but its more about avoiding the issues kid deal with these days rather than not being influenced by shows.

 

Erm, she was being clear, I think. If she only mentioned that the problem was attracting the teenagers, then you'd have a point. However, since she mentioned that they're choosing to attract the teenagers in place of the actual lessons, then that's clear. There's a certain type of humors that young, teenage boys prefer and programming companies are choosing that humor for that specific audience instead of actual quality plotlines and stories that have impact. Replacing Young Justice with Teen Titans GO! or Spectacular Spider-Man with Ultimate Spider-Man, Aaron Stone with shows like Zeke and Luthor, etc. is why the quality has gone down. The two types of shows can coexist and the more serious shows can keep random humor (but that shouldn't be the focus). The problem is Disney, Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network and the ilk are choosing one over the other and it's not the one that they should choose. If anything, the fact that there are less and less shows with meaningful and impacting lessons and stories and more and more random and idiotic comedy-based shows is the failure at the least.

 

I personally like Zeke and Luther, but it's all down to personal opinions, as I've stated.

The thing is that most kids, teenagers, and young adults (and maybe adults as well) don't want to learn stuff when watching shows, which is why any lessons we have learned from shows were intentionally made to not be right in our faces -- they were subtle.

I suppose even that's what you say is being lost now, but even if there are more shows with no meaning whatsoever than shows with meaning, I don't see it as a big issue. There are channels out there, such as The Learning Channel, that are explicitly for education, but Nickelodeon, Disney Channel, Disney XD, Cartoon Network, and similar channels aren't explicitly educational channels, so I personally don't think it matters which direction they go and if they go back and forth. And sure, there are shows like Dora the Explorer on Nickelodeon that are educational, but again, Nickelodeon isn't explicitly an educational channel.

 

The point is that education and humor ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.
You just said that you don't care which direction they go in, but you've spent this whole thread defending their current direction while shooting down the old one.
Hell, the subtle lessons are either too subtle that I'm just not noticing them anymore or they're gone altogether. We're arguing that the latter is generally what's going on and that's bad enough. Nothing against the random humor shows, but people are complaining because of the massive amount of them with the lack of the better shows. If I want to see a show about the dark side of superheroics (I MISS YOUNG JUSTICE, CAN YOU TELL?), will I find that on the Learning Channel? Hell, look at the original Teen Titans program: random humor (SOME ENTIRE EPISODES FOCUSED ON IT) and more serious episodes with overreaching storyarcs that were meaningful (here's looking at you, Terra, Slade, Doom Patrol, Robin's Paranoia, freakin' Trigon, Raven's dark personality, racial attack on Starfire [Who also dealt with jealousy and being overshadowed by her sister], Cyborg's problem with losing his humanity, and should I say one more time: TERRA'S WHOLE STORY ARC). There's a show that did it right.