The Lounge: Official Spamzone Community Thread

20th Century Fox has acquired film rights for Magic, I'm pretty sure no one has a leg to stand on with that.

 

i did not know that

 

Well, it's fact. Now Magic will have a bad movie to go with YuGiOh's bad show.

 

oh im sure i just hadn't heard
hey. 5ds is good. and gx is fun. and the first couple seasons of dm are fun. but zexal is kinda **** from what i've seen and i don't know anything about arc-v

 

I have no idea what any of those mean. I'm going to assume that the seasons that occurred after they took down Kids WB all had these weird subtitles.

 

the different series. "DM" - Duel Monsters being the first
okay i know you have no interest and probably no time but if you have or had any appreciation for ygo at all ever i would highly recommend checking out 5ds.
its good and so fun

 

No thanks, I hold feelings of only disdain for the design and style. I'm surprised you can stomach it when you typically are against the quote unquote anime style that YuGiOh is a prime example of. I also think that cardgames on motorcycles is a phrase that has been bandied about in reference to this 5ds series so it's probably not something I could take even a little bit seriously.

 

It's one of those things that get's a pass for having ties to my childhood. And since there's more to YGO than the show (you know, the card game) it can be enjoyed for different things. I can still play and love the card game even if I don't watch the show. When I think of YGO the first thing I think of is the card game, not the show.
And while I don't mind the animation style of the first 3 series (it's so cheesy and absurd that it's part of the charm) I can barely stomach the style of the two most recent series.

It does seem kinda silly when the series first starts but after a while it doesn't. Or rather, it doesn't seem any more silly than whole societies forming their cultures around a card game. And not all of the duels in 5D's are on motorcycles. It's just another way not the new default.

 

Not for me. I'd much, much rather have strong gameplay and world design than a well-written story, but I just wish it wasn't so hard to have all of that together.

Dude, even from not playing Yugioh for almost a year, I can tell you that Dark Magician of Chaos is hella broken. I can think up numerous deck variants that would be recycling its effects and wiping the enemy deck out. What pisses me off is that Trishula was banned when it could have been fixed by one sentence (and this works for many banned cards, including Dark Magician of Chaos:) "This monster's effect can only be used by a duelist once per duel."

 

I don't tend to give things free passes on stuff. If it's bad, it's just bad. If I like it and it's bad, I like it and it's still bad. But when I acknowledge that something is bad, I don't generally recommend it to anyone. Now, I kinda dislike the YuGiOh card game. Yes, I played it once upon a time, and it was unbalanced and horrible. I've since played games like Magic and Hearthstone, which while I find them kind of boring, I at least acknowledge are pretty well designed for the most part so I had to at least give them that. So associating the show with something I dislike already isn't gonna help.

It's not just kinda silly, it's like something out of a Monty Python bit. Even if it gets less silly, come on.[DOUBLEPOST=1399250390][/DOUBLEPOST]

That stifles any possible creativity and toolboxing people can do with the card and is truly just a cop out for actually balancing it.

 

I cried so much today that I can't decide if I look like a puffer fish or a panda.

 

I disagree; Trishula isn't that much better than other level ~8 monsters in terms of strength after its initial Synchro Summon effect. The only reason it got banned was from people exploiting it. How is limiting its power taking away creativity?

 

Arkane, the makers of Dishonored, is a group of 40 people. Be glad we got the first two...

 

Oh, I am, but I still like to be critical of a game no matter the size of the group who made it.

 

The thing is you're not simply limiting its power, you're saying you can use something once per game even though you can perform the triggering activity more times well within the rules. That's fucking retarded. You're basically observing a flaw in the interactions that are possible in it and rather than reworking the power to make it fair you're just taking away the interaction you don't like. It's the equivalent of putting a bandaid over a weak spot on a crack in a vase rather than just making a vase that's harder to crack. I don't play YuGiOh anymore, duh, I said as much, but the above is something I think holds true in all games.

So what you propose is making it a one use thing that can't be used in any way except the most obvious and direct way. There is no point in pulling it out of graveyard or tutoring it up if it gets bottomed or anything so yeah, you're taking away decision making powers from the user so you're taking away creativity options. That's obvious, I feel.

 

How would you rework Trishula's effect than without while making sure it plays nicely with the game's rules and not end up making the monster something else completely? Why shouldn't there be effects that are one-time uses only? Would you prefer if the monster could only be summoned once? I'd be ok with that too, but to ban the card completely just because people were exploiting the effect in unintended ways seems more foolish than either of the remedies I put forth.

And what? No point in pulling it out of the graveyard? When did 2700 ATK or a level 9 Dragon Monster become useless? You can bring it back to the field for an Xyz Summon, or a Ritual Summon, or just use it on its own for offensive/defensive purposes, or use it for a variety of other plots. I really just don't get your argument :\

 

I'm not going to be critical of a plot that the game doesn't make a big deal out of. That's like being critical of Mega Man's plot so you can be critical of Other M's plot. These elements don't need to be universally criticized. Rather, it's what the game does we should look at. Dark Souls has a terrible narrative that doesn't convey anything to the player and is so rarely talked of that when it does it creates an "oh yeah..." moment. I'd never criticize Dark Souls for not weaving a good narrative because it wasn't its intention. Rather, it wanted to create a world. Dishonored is very similar in that way. The narrative is there so the world can be there. To be fair, if they had embraced their design and truly created a tension from their "value of life vs ease of progression" theme they wanted to have hanging over the player's head, it would have complimented the narrative cliches so well that the cliches would be justified. I'm sure the developers thought they made this theme, but they didn't.

 

I feel like I covered this with the I don't play YuGiOh thing, but I don't actually know what the effect is and what 2700ATK and level 9 mean at this point. Anyways, if there is no way to make it fair without adding a bullshit caveat, then yes, it should just never have been written at all. You're clearly missing my poinjt if you think I'd like something that could only be summoned once because that's the same thing you said before essentially from my perspective. Also, YuGiOh from my understanding, has a longer ban list than any other popular trading card game because of its poor writing to begin with so you should take that as a part of the game.

My point is that the effect, the part you care about, the part that makes it different from any other random card is what matters here. You have a deck with 59 other cards, I assume so you have other creatures you could just play off a draw without having to two for one yourself to get. I figured that much would be obvious, but I'm clarifying because your perspective much be a lot different from how I imagined it.

 

No no, I mean, if there's as much focus on that part of the game. Like, I don't care how small the group was who developed Gone Home; the focus is clearly on its plot and writing, which I found far inferior to, say, the plot and writing in The Last of Us, even if that team was obviously bigger.

Yugioh's ban list is fucking ridiculous, and so many of the banned cards only got there from people who exploited the effects, but I do agree that Konami are pretty shite at predicting how broken their cards can become. Also, the whole reason I stopped playing was that the newer stuff constantly just completely overshadows the older decks. I got tired of having to buy the new cards to stand a chance, something that I think (since I don't play) Magic does much better.

Eh, from my own experiences, many monsters with effects that only come from their specific summoning methods don't stop being useful, but I kinda think that part comes entirely from how the player utilizes his deck.

Also, minor detail: most good players stick to the 40 card minimum for a deck.

 

Granted. But since this came from Dishonored, I'll do well to mention that Dishonored doesn't spend... really any time on the plot. It steps it up in about ten minutes, and it has minute long cutscenes between levels. There's really much more emphasis on the world and characters that inhabit the levels.

Anyway, I don't much care for talking the narrative in this game. Rather, I'd rather talk about the cool stuff this came did near the end to make me value stealth and how if it did that earlier in the game, it'd have succeeded on its themes. Humanizing the enemy guard NPCs would've also helped. We're introduced to them in a prison where they tortured me- why shouldn't I kill them? They talk about how they enjoy torturing the town's people, and they're virtual, why shouldn't I kill them? Well, I want the canon ending... I guess... Meanwhile, there were characters like Slackjaw who helped me out from early on in my journey and when asked to kill him by a character who had only given me what I wanted, I couldn't do it.

I often wonder why they don't humanize these enemies when they want me to value their lives. Especially because, in this game, if I value their lives, that value is imprinting on another character who is genuinely likable. I've always wanted to hear them talk about realistic things or even be visited by their family or something to make me see "hey... it's not these guys who're the bad people, I shouldn't kill them..." With something like that in a setting as gripping as Dishonored's, it'd make me want to chose stealth and enforce those limits on my own. Of course, Dishonored could've done this in multiple ways. Two levels come to mind in particular and it's annoying they're near the end. In one level, you attend a masquerade and have to kill someone who you only know the last name of. Bad news, there's three people with that last name and they're wearing the same costume, just each with a different color. You can kill all of them, hide them, and get out, and your life will be easier. And yet, if you talk to one they inform you of a contest they're having where you win a prize if you guess which woman is in which costume. Obviously, you really can't participate in this contest. But everyone at the party is playing and it's really enticing after hearing them say "I wish I could sneak upstairs and snoop in their stuff so I could win the contest, but there's too many guards..." Not only does this invite a challenge of winning their contest, but it invites the challenge of circumventing the guards. If you win and get the right target, you just walk out and nobody's the wiser. It feels good to do that and I wish it had happened earlier to set up the value of stealth and nonlethal actions. There was another level, but that's more of a spoiler...