So... I found this today:

Discussion in 'Debate Corner' started by Sara, Jan 11, 2015.

  1. Sara Tea Drinker

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Wherever the wind takes me.
    340


    I didn't see the whole thing, because... Well... I am not religious nor believe in religion. I believe in God, I utterly despise religion. I will ignore the trolls or questions why because it's personal and honestly, I get angry when talking about it.

    But I found this on youtube this morning about a priest who had in his opinion, mind you, a smart ass in his class. He decides to punch the kid in the chest and talks about it in this video years later to his congregation. There's a storm of controversy over this, which I understand, so I decided to bring thoughts here.

    I honestly won't have a good opinion since it involves abusing a child and abuse of religion. The video seems quite long if you notice the first few seconds this seems about three quarters through the man's sermon. So I'm guessing there was little backlash during the sermon itself, later maybe, but none during it. Probably some left, probably some agreed with the guy, and some probably were neutral.

    In my opinion, what the guy did was wrong. They're given too much power over kids, I've heard a lot of stories of this going on a few years ago on 60 minutes where kids came back traumatized from camps like this. I myself would've probably ended up with one if it wasn't for my mom, and my godfather probably was in one of these while growing up. He still flat-out refuses to go to any church from the experience and hates talking about religion in any aspect.

    I honestly, if we had the power, which might not be the case since the first amendment is stepping in here. (Freedom of Religion). I would investigate not only the priest, but the church that this happened to. Maybe he was removed right after he did that, maybe he stayed a few years after, but the fact it happened in the first place is enough to raise questions. Or that unless he owns the church he's working at now, they allow him to stay after saying so openly he punched a kid in the chest. Teen or not, he shouldn't have punched anyone in the chest for their beliefs or anything else.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Scarred Nobody Where is the justice?

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    1,356
    I've actually been to a church much like this one. While the pastor there never hurt anybody (that I know of), I can definitely say that the two pastors are very similar. I'm really disturbed by how open the pastor is about punching a kid right in the chest, but what really disgusts me is how calm the congregation is. What the pastor did was absolutely wrong, but the fact that everyone listening to this stays silent just rubs me the wrong way.

    There are only two scenarios that I imagine is going on in the congregation. One, they aren't even really listening to him; they're so engrossed in the "spirit" of the church, that they'll listen to whatever he says (like in the beginning of The Last Exorcism). The other scenario is that they actually believe what he did was write. I know a lot of "church people" who think that as long as the Holy Spirit is inside the person, it doesn't matter what the pastor had to do.
     
  3. Sara Tea Drinker

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Wherever the wind takes me.
    340
    I saw a video like this one where a priest was talking about beating a little boy and making him dig ditches. (Age didn't matter, I think he said three in the example, though.) Because he showed "gay" tendencies (I.E.: Him dressing like a girl and doing girl things.) A lot of the church cheered for him saying that and thought it was a great idea. He continued on to talk about girls, but not such an extensive way.

    I can sadly see my dad doing any of these examples. I won't go into details, like I said, I don't enjoy talking about my past with the church, as much as my godfather doesn't. But if he heard someone doing this to a child, at any age, who was a priest, he would accept it. I don't know if he would do it himself, but he would at least support it. It''s a scary thought.
     
  4. Patman Bof

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    665
    I ... think you're allergic to religions institutions and/or dogmas rather than religion itself. I mean you do believe in God, can' t get more religious than that. As an atheist I don' t bother with the no true Scotsman fallacies many religious people throw around to dissociate themselves from extremists. But never mind any of that, I understood what you meant anyway.

    Pretty sure protection from abuse would trump freedom of religion in court. At least it would in my country. I' ve heard some of your states are a-okay with letting some kids die just because their parents held the religious belief that medicines are bad. Feel free to pick your lunacy, I really don't give a flying **** about it, but the second your beliefs are a) harming other people and b) factually wrong then yes, your beliefs should and will be utterly dismissed. Not that authoritarian approaches to education are specific to religion mind you. Nor embraced by every believer.

    While I do believe you can't raise kids without getting a little physical every now and then (unless you made it your full time job and/or are insanely rich) I' d try to keep it to a minimum. That being said, one of my friends lost his parents when he was around ten and was raised quite erm ... militarily from there on. He told me he' s actually thankful for that, because back then it was indeed the one and only way to get him to behave. I' m not sure I' m buying that last part, but heh, his words, not mine.
     
  5. Sara Tea Drinker

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2006
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Wherever the wind takes me.
    340
    Freedom of religion can get pretty liberal in the U.S. A lot of places take it to the extreme, Waco Siege is one of many examples of this. There has been times it has been investigated before, as such molestation charges and things like that. The main problem is at least with the molestation is that the priests around said molester do a vow of silence before said person confesses to the priest.

    A lot of people do believe in not giving children medicine. There's some who don't believe in giving their children vaccinations. Some believe in selling their children to older men or marrying to multiple wives, (something my mom barely avoided and most likely my fate if she stayed.) The problem is with any religion, any type, can get a person to a mindset that this is okay and they don't speak out. My dad was a lot like that, my mom got my aunt and dad out of one of those, that's how cults work and even what others see as wrong (such as beating a child, which I'm sure the child complained to his parents and they either didn't believe him and/or they didn't think it was that bad.) they don't turn the person in. This is probably the first time that someone posted this, or if they have, a judge and/or the police looked the other way. There is probably a reason why he hasn't been seeing jail for a long time, or if he has, why he's still a priest. Or claiming to be one as the case may be.

    I do believe in spanking or corporal punishment if there is a reason to do so and there's no other way to get to the kid. Meaning a few swats on the rear, maybe push-ups if needed in a military setting. One karate instructor had my nephew do that as punishment which is fine for me because honestly the kid was bullying other children and being disrespectful to the instructor. The push ups did no harm and put him in better shape for the lessons he was taking. If it was excessive and the kid shown physical distress after a certain amount would I stop it? Yes, same in spanking. Do I believe in a paddle/hairbrush/etc? No. I believe in something that will not leave severe bruises and/or damage on a child except a sore/stinging bottom for a few minutes. A punch in the chest in a certain way can not only break ribs but can kill a kid with the right force. Kids are still developing at that age, a punch in the chest from one adult to another can kill a person with the right force.
     
  6. Patman Bof

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    665