Birth by Sleep POSSIBLE SPOILER This should tie up some theories...

Ok... I found it...

Click here too see it...

It even has an Ansem Report at the end to back it up.

 

YES!!!! I remember that one! Woo-hoo! More evidence! 8D

 

YES I AGREE. And it might be possible that whatever was left of Terra (who sora fought in kh2fm+) might have been the third enemy. I mean, I've always wondered how a heartless could be so powerful to obtain a human body, thoughts and speech. Terra looks pretty damn powerful to me.

 

ok

wow this a good theory, and pretty long debate as well.
anyways, i think Xhenhort the apprentice is the same person as Terra, but he probably has MX's spirit in him.
I would like to know who MX really is! I thought it was Ansem the Wise the first time i saw the clip, and haven't been proven wrong yet. But i also love Final Fantasy, especially the first ones, and knowing that Terra, Ven, and Aqua are earth, wind, and water in latin....that takes me back to the 4 crystals. and when kairi's grandma is telling the story to her about the dark and light, it takes me back to ff once again with the continuel end boss.....a spirit of Chaos......
now i think someone needs to find out the word for fire or flames in latin, or maybe destruction, so we can figure out who'll be the other warrior of light (if u know were im goin with this).
Terra=earth
Ven=wind
Aqua=water
destruction in latin is exitium, eversio, or perditio.
fire has none in latin ( i just checked), and none for flames.
odd. anyone else think of a good word for fire?
heres the link for a language changer thing, if u can think of somethin...http://www.freedict.com/onldict/onldict.php
REPLY and tell me what u think of this kh intertwined with ff theory

 

Sorry if I came off as rude or anything, but I've heard this theory waaay too many times already. But, I'll make my comments on that later. However, as to the point I was making towards the video, I specifically said -

You said you'd done so... But, I'm confused that you don't see my point. Terra activates a power that, somehow, inverts the colors of his eyes. It doesn't just make them yellow. It also makes the whites black. He does this, by himself, which means Master Xehanort had nothing to do with it.

<.< Which would, kinda make the whole point of the "OMG WHEN U INVERT HIS COLORS HE LOOKS LIEK XEMNAS" argument... moot.

Anyway, in the most recent trailer which was again documented and not leaked, Master Xehanort is quoted as to have stated that there is "Another Xehanort". He told this to Terra. Which means, our Xehanort is already existing at the time of BBS, further proven by flashbacks and Ansem Reports.

Do you see where I'm going with this? Terra cannot become Xehanort, if Xehanort already exists.

Also, food for thought. Why not take a look into why Nomura would think of hiding the Dark Soldier's face behind a mask, and, when it gets knocked off, quickly cut the scene? Could it be a spoiler of some sort? But, that can't be right, can it? I mean, we know almost nothing about the whole BBS story. So why...?

Because it is a spoiler. It is a character we have seen many times, and is one of the main focuses of BBS, alongside Ven.

He.

Is.

XEHANORT!!!

 

Wait, wait, wait, when did he say that there was another Xehanort? I remember him saying, "The wall of light and darkness exceeded each other, creating the original me," but I didn't hear anything about another Xehanort.

 

Terra may very well be the Dark Soldier... which would explain why he wears a mask, and they didnt show his face when he takes it off.

By the way... the Dark Soldier is whereing almost the same armor as Dark Riku... Terra is called the "Enigmatic Soldier" so... uh...

*Holds up his left hand* Dark Soldier, Dark Riku,
*Holds up his right Hand* Enigmatic Soldier (aka Terra), Riku

Also... we dont know the Timeline of the story... perhaps Terra's story is supposed to take place 2 weeks before Ven's story... and in Terra's ending Xehanort goes all Darth Sidious on Terra convincing him that the Dark Side is stronger than the light.

I'm doing a play by play of the entire video... I highlighted the key parts which would imply Terra is in fact the dark Soldier.

Also... in the first Teaser Video... the one a lot of people think is symbolic... The only time they interact is when The Dark Soldier cast what appears to be thunder, while leaping straight down at Terra... yet he never lands. You see Ven run right by Terra. To engage the Dark Soldier. Whch makes no sense, since the Dark soldier should have landed exactly where Terra was. Also notice, when Terra gets Zapped... he is not facing Xehanort. but he looks back to face Aqua and Ven. Which is the way the Dark Soldier would have been facing if he landed.

Terra gets knocked around by a billion Keyblades... while Ven and Aqua engage the Dark Soldier.

Aqua cast reflect on Terra, then there is an explosion. Terra lands at Xehanorts feet. Terra engages Xehanort... who pwns him, with one hand behind his back by the way. Ven jumps in to save the day... only to get his helmet crushed.

Terra steps forward... only to get smashed by a billion Keyblades, again. Its only then that The Dark Soldier reappears. After Terra is taken out of the fight.

Then Ven is thrown off a cliff... and lands at Aqua's feet.

Xehanort parts the sky to reveal Kingdom Hearts.

Terra takes off his helmet... and turns his eyes Orange. His whites do not turn black... but the outline of his iris does.

Mickey mouse pops out to remind you this games is bankrolled by Disney.


Notice... they only time you see the Dark Soldier fighting, is when Terra is being thrown around by flying keyblades.

Maybe Erkz theory isn't as full proof as he thought.

 

I'm sorry, I'm a little lost. So are you saying that Terra instantly transforms into the Dark Soldier and back to Terra numerous times in the video? I'm positive that they're two seperate people. If you look again in the video, when the DS uses Thunder on Terra, he does land, just a bit behind Terra. Then Aqua runs past Terra from behind. It's obvious that the DS ran ahead right after zapping Terra. Plus, you can see both Terra and the DS at the beginning when Terra is running towards him and MX. Did I misunderstand you?

 

I'm saying if it is symbolic, then normal laws of physics dont apply. I did not see DS run by Terra. *Looks Again* Still no...

Its not that he literally transforms several times throughout the fight, but that two different sides of him are fighting the same battle, from opposite ends.

Just think of Starwars, when they tell the story, usually they tell it that Anikin was a good guy, and a Jedi, wheras Vader was a Sith Lord, who killed all the Jedi, including Anikin. At least, thats how Obi Wan Kenobi tells it. Now, did Vader literally change forms and teleport around the battlefield fighting on both sides? No... but two different sides of him faught on different sides at different times.


If its not symbolic, than Erkz theory is still shot down, since DS comes out of Xehanort, and is therfore not a real person, more of an extension of Xehanorts Soul.

 

ok

cool, but can u comment on what i said before? Can anyone think of a name for the dark soldier pertaining to fire in Latin? im positive that kh and early ff are intertwined.

 

Good man... I like your style!

 

"Torr" I think is the Latin root for fire... O.o 'tis a hard one!

By the way, イルクズ, I have to appologize. I've been on medication for a physical condition for the last few days and... let's just say I have not been myself lately. If I was rude to you in any way, seriously just ignore me. :sorry:

 

... My bad, a misrecollection on my part, it wasn't stated. It was implied. Read this -

<.< Why speak to the person in front of you in the third person? Master Xehanort's obviously doing it to taunt Terra, but Terra has no reason to do so... unless of course, there's another Xehanort.

No.

The "Dark Soldier" CANNOT be Terra, seeing as Master Xehanort is apparently asking Terra to defeat him. Terra's brother, maybe? It'd explain the 'resemblances' between Terra and Xehanort, wouldn't it?

Also, the fact that Terra and the Dark Soldier have minimal contact with each other does not prove that Terra is indeed the Dark Soldier. The mere fact that Terra is seen running toward both the Dark Soldier and Master Xehanort in the beginning of the video is proof enough that they exist as two different entities. However, please look at this picture -
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8841/snapshot20080221004242kr4.jpg

I do hope that is enough to clear the delusion you hold that the Dark Soldier and Terra are the same person...

My apologies. The lighting led me to believe otherwise... haha, I actually just finished watching the Birth By Sleep video in slow motion. The whites of his eyes do indeed remain white. Reminds me a bit of Saix actually...

Also, digging up that old article made me notice something... specfically... this -

Funny, I could have sworn Mickey, Riku, Master Xehanort and the Dark Soldier were all wielding keyblades. Does he somehow feel that a denizen of the dark doesn't have the right to wield a keyblade because of his darkness? This guy reminds me of Ansem the Wise. For more than one reason.

*Scratches head* Bah, now it seems like I'm trying to prove Master Xehanort is Ansem the Wise. *shudders*

<_< Which would make him effectively "another Xehanort". This shoots down my theory... how? Also, for future reference, please note the importance Nomura placed on the words "Another" and "No Heart" when referring to Xehanort's name.

Anywho, that's all from me for now... ^_^ Be sure to try to shoot me down again.

 

The other Xehanort is in fact probably Dark Soldier...

Ok... I was just shooting into the dark... probing the Idea...

You reconvinced me of a theory I had of Master Xehanort before... (I amended it to incorperate your good points)

***BIG TIME SPOILERS TO MOST FINAL FANTASY GAMES***

Or it may be possible that the Dark Soldier is actually not a person, but a entity of hate and distruction which takes over bodies. He took over Xehanort (baldy's body) then Riku's later on.

This is quite the common plot in the Final Fantasy series.

In FF1 that Garland gets take over by spirit called "Chaos"

In FF2, the Mataus dies, and returns as the "Demon King"

In FF3 that wizard dude gets taken over by "The Cloud of Darkness"

In FF4 Zemus gets taken over by a spirit called "Zerumos"

In FF5 X-Death gets take over by the Void and becomes "Mega X-Death"

In FF6 Kefka gets taken over by the essence of the satues, but keeps him name.

In FF7 Sephiroth gets taken over by Genova and becomes "Safer Sephiroth"

In FF Tactics the Zodiac Knights were actually summoned monsters who were being controlled by "Altima"

In FF9 that other Kuja gets taken over by a spirit called "The Void" (same as in FF5)

In each of thease climaxes, the last boss usually paraphrases this line "I am Chaos, I am Hate, I have been around since the begining of time, and I will destroy the universe!"

No kidding. In eacho of the endings they always say that line. Perhaps Dark Soldier is the same spirit.

I believe in FF9 and FF5 they even say, "The universe began with nothingness, and it shall end in darkness!" Does that sound familiar????

Also, in FF1, 2, 3, 4, they all say the same line, only they say darkness, instead of nothingness... kinda like Xehanorts Heartless in KH1.

Also in FF6, he sais light shal purge the world of life... for some odd reason light is his weapon, rather than darkness or nothingness.


Ok... I still believe its possible that the Dark Soldier could have taken over Terra at the end of BbS.

 

... Sadly, I'm going to have to ignore your references to the FF games. It has been said, time and again, that KH=/=FF. There are many similarities, yes, but such similarities are irrelevant, and are traits shared by different games created by the same company...

I am not sure where... but I seem to remember reading that Nomura stated that he is actually a person, seperate from Master Xehanort... and that the effect where he appears to seperate himself from Master Xehanort was solely for dramatic purposes... Alas, not being able to completely remember said source, I do not wish to rely on it heavily... I mention it en passe in the hopes that you might have read it also...

Patience... Do remember that Nomura once referred to BBS as a 'new series'. I think it's a bit too early to state exactly when BBS will end just yet. Also, I still can't see why everyone wants Terra to be possessed so badly... Another possession dilemna would be hazardous for Nomura to pull, seeing as he's used it in the Kingdom Hearts timeline already, and also attributed it to Xehanort's Heartless.

I pose to you a question, though. Yes, it it true that the Dark Soldier wears clothes which are very similar to Dark Riku's... There seems to be some color swapping going on. Where Dark Riku had blue, Dark Soldier has red, and vice versa. Also, the skirt-thing is white on Riku, and black on the Dark Soldier. Why such subtle changes? What do they reflect?

 

All the Square Stories are intertwined... thats the pattern I see.I mean, Final Fantasy Tactics took place in a world used for Ogre Battle, a totally different franchise. And the Ogre franchise was made by Enix, which was baught by Square. Also, in it Cloud makes an appearence as a hidden character, so the stories are intertwined there. Some of the same plotlines were plagerized, such as the Zodiac Knights ect. And that is supposed to be a completly seperate franchise.

Also, Sephiroth wasnt the first emo with white hair to summon a moster who can steal the life energy from planets to feed. It was Magus, from Crono Triger! Also a completly seperate franchise. Also, Magus mother ends up turning out to be Lavos, the moster which eats worlds. Sound familiar? They even both have white hair! Ok... Magus' has a blue tint to it kinda like Xenmas, but still!


Also, every Final Fantasy game is supposed to be totall independant, taking place on a different world. But, in each, characters from one game will have a cameo in the other. So even though KH does not = FF... it can be easily stated that plot lines will intertwine and overlap. Its the way Square does things. They always have done it that way, ever since FF2 came out after FF1!

So tell me... is it beyond Square to rewrite stories? I mean look at Organization XIII... all of them are in fact characters from previos Final Fantasy games in black treanchcoats with different names.

I hope you pull it up as well. I would like to see it. Even if Dark Soldier is another person, whos to say that he is not possesed by the evil entity as well? It may be Terra's brother... but who knows.

Patience is not one of my strong points... but arguing plotlines is! Possesion would be a great plotline for Nomura too pull. It seals up a lot of loose ends. What if its not Xehanorts Heartless which has that ability, but in fact the evil spirit entity which makes up the Dark Soldier.

I have no clue... I would guess its supposed to be a more primitive version. Or maybe they realized the Dark Soldier couldnt look tough with a white Hawaiian Skirt so they make it black. Its not the same guy, but perhaps the same entity, responding to its host differently.

Do you have a theory?

 

wow

WOW!!!
This is a great debate u guysXD
no but seroiusly...i'm goin' with ICSP on this one.
FInal Fantasy is definetly connected to Kingdom Hearts, and he gave all the proof needed to prove his point.....(sorry Erkz...)
But i'd have to say the winner of the debate goes to ICSP!
(Erkz just got pwned:guns:)
I should make a poll on this debate, i hope u guys keep goin'.....XD
Anyways, What was the word Torr for fire?
cool..... but no player has a name like it.....darn:nono:
Anyways, The warriors of darkness theory is truly brilliant. I havn't played all the FF games, but i hope to own all someday
(I've played1, 2, 3, 4, and12, and Crono Trigger, and it's just like the main plot line from kh. but i do hope that Square changes it up a little in the end. i think this series will bring an end to the warriors of light, and the warriors of darkness plot for Square games.....honestly....)
so yeah, i'm gonna make a poll on this to see who is the Master Debator!!!!!!!!!!!

hereu go, i made a poll.
hope u win ICSP!!!!XD
http://www.kh-vids.net/showthread.php?t=43975

 

... Okay, seriously, this is what happens when you take harmless cameos too far. If you're so fixated on the fact that all Square games are intertwined, explain what in blazes Sephiroth, Cloud and the others were doing in a freaking wrestling game! Kingdom Hearts is an alternate timeline. FF7 Cloud is NOT KH Cloud. FF8 Squall is NOT KH Leon. Yes, their stories have drawn on the originals, but this is to keep their personalities as close as possible to the originals we know and love. Goddammit, Aerith DIES, man!

I haven't found it yet, but I'm doubting that there's any 'omnipotent evil entity' involved besides those we've already encountered...

Too great, too convienient. Nomura goes out on a limb to write us great stories that keep us playing the game until the very end. Yet, you seem to expect him to pull the same plot twist twice? If possession comes into play in BBS, trust me, it won't play a part of such an epic scale as this. Also, please. Xehanort's Heartless has the ability to possess those who accept him. That's a fact. And I really don't think Nomura would want anyone to go through the whole "Welp, he wasn't really who he said he was, he just went around tellin' everybody he was." crap again. It would defeat the whole purpose of making this game.

Responding differently to its host? What do you think this 'entity' is exactly, a symbiote from Spider-Man? I'm willing to differ in saying that it isn't the entity that's responding differently, it's the host manipulating it differently. Notice I'm implying control over it? Want to know why? Because I believe that this 'entity' you keep referring to is simply 'Darkness', that omnipresent source of power that fuels most villains and Riku.

At this point, however, I'm willing to bet that the only people who have anything to do with the current storyline are Ven and the Dark Soldier. Possibly Aqua, seeing as they're so reluctant to release any information on her... But I do believe that's for other reasons not pertaining to Birth By Sleep specifically, so I won't get into them.

 

Hey Erkz. You were talking about how "No heart" and "Another" were very important ideas, and I don't know if you already know this, but "Another" and "No heart" are Xeahnort's name without the x.

 

Yes they are... its the same character. I know that what happens to Coud and Leon is not FF Canon. But thats not the arguement I was making. The arguement I was making is that most plotlines from Square is actually a recycled plotline.

But you countered with the arguement that Kingdom Hearts is a different franchise, so the plotline which was used in almost every Final Fantasy game would not carry over into a Kingdom Hearts plotline.

I then showed you plotlines from other franchises which were carried into Final Fantasy storylines, and vice versa.

Do not misinterpret my point, thinking that I believe everything in the KH plotline is in fact Final Fantasy canon, and vice versa, when I never said that. You read too deeply into my arguement.

Nomura hinted that we finally get introduced to the real enemy in BbS. I noticed that in almost every Square game, we get introduced to an antagonist, who appears to be the last boss. Then, in a plot twist, an 'omnipotent evil entity' seems to pop out of nowhere to become the main last boss.

Case in point, look at Final Fantasy 4, and 9. I mean, the true last boss is only mentioned like 5 seconds before you fight him.

If Square did that too all the other games in there franchise, both Final Fantasy and other franchises, why not do it with Kingdom Hearts?

I mean they basically did that with Kingdom Hearts 1. I mean, the whole game they were hyping up Maleficent to be the last boss, then at the end of Hallow Bastion, Ansem pops out of a hole, posseses Riku, and opens the Door To Darkness... only to be consumed by the light of Kingdom Hearts.

Holy Crap! Maybe you should play some classic Final Fantasy games... so you can see how recycled some of the stories are. Most plot twist do not fool me now.

If possesion comes back into play in BbS I would not be suprised at all... I would be more suprised if it wasnt in the game. Possesion is a Key plotline to every Square game I played... I mean every sigle one!!! Thats not only Final Fantasy games but every single one.

Also, Dark Soldier may somehow convince Terra that he needs the power of darkness to do something... the way he did Riku.

Dude... you may have just won my arguement for me... play Final Fantasy 1-6 and you will know exactly what I mean... I'm not even going to shoot this full of holes... just play the game and you will not be able to disagree with me. You are in fact halfway there.

I will call the entity its Final Fantasy 1 name... Chaos.

Light and Darkness are always connected. The closer you get to the light, the stronger your shadow becomes.