Opinions on Incest

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Jube, May 9, 2012.

  1. Jube Formerly Chuck's

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Guess
    633
    There have and always will be exceptions to this.
    In my case my relationship with my sister was instigated her. I'll admit that I was little wierded out at first but then I had looked back on all the time I had spent with my sister over the years and how happy I was during each moment. Even during the bad times I was still happy to be with her and I wished to be with her every step of the way, other girls didn't really matter.

    You are saying that children born and raised together should not ever pursue a more intimate relationship with eachother simply because they've been labelled as "brother" and "sister" or "father" and "mother".
    You can still love your sibling and have friends from outside your family, it's just that you've reserved that the "lover" position for someone else. You could easily reserve the "sister" position or "brother" position with an outsider.


    Also to the people saying
    What if they do reproduce and the child comes out perfectly healthy?


    You also have to understand that when two people consent to incest they stop acting like brother/sister father/daughter mother/son, etc.
    Brother and sister relationships tend to be awkward due to the fact that public displays of affection may result in naysayers but once you both leave your social circle there's really nobody other then the government who's aware that the two of you are siblings.
    Once you become lovers the line between the two as siblings vanishes forever. All that's left is genetic evidence
     
  2. Patman Bof

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    672
    Is forcing a child who didn' t ask for it to play the Russian roulette morally acceptable just because he might survive it ?
    Plus see the whole unaffected carrier business mentioned earlier.

    Also, Makaze already mentioned that if your kids are raised to see incest as an ok thing it increases the odds for them to be incestuous too. That' s precisely the kind of thinking that led to the degenerated European royal families. Would you tell your kids "it was ok for us but it' s not ok for you" ? Where would you draw the line ?
     
  3. Jube Formerly Chuck's

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Guess
    633
    If a child is raised being taught that Christianity is the truth does that mean he's going to think it's the truth?
    Things aren't like before, nowadays when people are constantly exposed to other people's way of thinking and society in general, what you parents say tend to do little compared to what everyone else says. Terrible? Perhaps, but that's usually how it works.

    And who are you to deny the rights for something to live?
    There's always a chance for deformities be it incest or not. Incest is a greater chance but that doesn't mean there aren't mentally and physically deformed humans in the world who were born from seemingly normal parent. Are their parents terrible people for allowing them to be born into the world? There are a lot of mentally challenged people who live happy lives and are glad to be alive.
    By your logic, only the genetically strong are allowed to have children.
     
  4. Hayabusa Venomous

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Gender:
    Cisgender Male
    Location:
    Tokyo-3
    2,519
    Never between a parent and a child. That's your baby you're trying to get with: you had to already love another person to conceive that kid (or adopt, but its the same responsibilities to raise the child). That's where I believe you have to draw a line.

    Cousins, and for that matter, brothers and sisters...I guess its fine? Like you said, if its consensual...and there's the fact that genetic defects are rare. I dunno, I've really never thought about this subject. Though I wouldn't really encourage it personally. Having kids though, that's, to me, a stretch.

    Also, bestiality is a completely different story. Leave that to a different discussion (and before anyone asks, I think its wrong and frankly disturbing)
     
  5. Makaze Some kind of mercenary

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Location:
    The Matinée
    1,207
    I do not think he was arguing for disallowing anything, he was merely expressing that the decision to have children when your genes will cause problems is a hard one to make. It is not a smart decision to have children with someone who is genetically close to you. No one has suggested that we outlaw those willing to take the risk. Or not that I have seen.
     
  6. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Gender:
    Cisgender Male
    1,282
    You don't grow up with your non related spouse or lover. You grow apart and experience different things, bright different ideas and behaviour into a mutual relationship. As a sibling, you grow up together, affect each other's development and that is not simply blood mingling together that is a mutual history which simply can not be ignored. You share the same parents, the same family, the same area, the same household, the same up bringing, these all are a factor in relationships.

    I was trying to say that in general, the dominate of a sibling relationship is the elder sibling, not the younger. That is in rare cases.

    And this is why sibling relationships develop, because of the experiences you have with them. They develop something that other won't have, so yes they will experience a close and unique bond, but that doesn't mean it will grow into some type of love, companionship or sexual appetite.

    Is she an elder or younger sister? And it didn't work out then?


    Then they are born of an incestuous relationship, that can not be avoided for a start. So that means they will forever be stigmatised by that fact. I'm just saying that they can only look back at their family history not like a conventional offspring, by having two defining family trees and in laws, but by their parent's families only. And what if they have siblings themselves? They have brothers or sisters that they can have relationships? How long till the bloodline is distilled into one solution? How many chances are there to have a perfectly fit and healthy child?
    The genetics side will still likely mean some degradation in the child's development such as lower intelligence, strength, endurance, a less defensive immune system, greater chance of being afflicted by mental disorders, and many other things. This is the same for the current tiger population in captivity, since so many have been killed all current descendants of the tiger population are in some way related to each other, and that is why many tigers in captivity suffer from low immune system, vision deficiency, cases of hair loss, extreme tiredness.
    Their gene pool has effectively been contaminated with their own genes, because of us mainly, but it shows the effects of prolonged incestuous reproduction. It's not a viable or ethical decision.

    So what if the relationship doesn't work out? Not only have you lost the partner you were with but also one of your siblings. It's not like you can simply get rid of them by never seeing them again. You are family, you are bound by blood. And it can not easily be forgotten, forever will you remember it. Be thankful yours was a positive one.
     
  7. Patman Bof

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    672
    You missed my point. Assuming that you' re right, that the odds for your kids to also be incestuous aren' t increased, we' re still left with a problem : if we were to make incestuous reproduction legal for you it would have to be just as legal for your kids, otherwise there' s a double standard. In other words consecutive in-breeding in the same genealogical tree would be legal, chances are it would happen, and we know for a fact that the result is not a pretty sight.

    When did I deny any such thing ? Please don' t put words in my mouth.

    Just because reproduction is risky by default doesn' t mean I wouldn' t mind letting you willingly increase the risks exponentially.

    Wrong, whether you have "strong" or "feeble" genes is irrelevant to me. I don' t mind allowing everyone to reproduce with someone unrelated. I do mind allowing everyone to reproduce incestuously. By the same logic I wouldn' t mind letting incestuous couples adopt a child.
     
  8. The Graceful Assassin It's Just Like Christmas Morning

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Location:
    pl_badwater
    104
    These kinds of threads are always a good read. Anyways, I honestly don't have any rejections or anything else for it. Just that the only rejection I can think of is the baby, but I guess if the couple uses all precautions there's not really too much wrong with it, but I do however abhor dad and daughter, mother and daughter incest. To me, sexual relations with a minor and an old man/woman is pushing it. It makes me wonder that if some of mom son, dad daughter relationships could also be a product of pedophilia. I think somewhere I read an article on it about it, but I'm not too sure.
     
  9. Jube Formerly Chuck's

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Guess
    633
    So then what's the difference between kids who have grown up at an orphanage or foster home?
    And I don't know about you but I wouldn't say siblings experience the same thing. They may have the same parents and same upbringing but outside of that they may have entirely different worlds, they might not even go to the same school as the case with me and my sister. Even in terms of parents, each parent may interact with the child in a different way. I know that my brother knows things about my dad that I have no clue about simply because the two of them have always been extremely close. They talk about stuff with eachother on a regular basis to the point that you would think they were best friends or brothers. I didn't have that relationship with my dad.
    I'm pretty sure love between two siblings romantic or not never starts mutual. It most always is a development that occurs over the years. Sometimes it simply doesn't happen, I know some people who simply despise their siblings and want nothing to do with them.
    I'm not saying it most surely will
    But I'm saying it can happen. And when it does I see nothing wrong with a special relationship like that being romantic.
    1 year older
    Lots of **** happened after the death of a family member but were still together. We live a bit far(same country and province) and have plans of moving in with eachother when we're both financially stable.
    If it doesn't work out then you can choose not to see eachother ever again(which is quite possible in this day and age) or simply go to being friends.
    The two of you have both settled with abandoning any sibling relationship so I don't see why the two would have a problem with being good friends with eachother.
    I truly don't see the problem with this. One's family tree hardly defines them in any way. I could care less who my great ancestors were and it's not really something you see people put grand importance upon nowadays.
    The gene pool being contaminated doesn't really matter to people who aren't concerned about the generations down the line. Most people are only concerned about the children that they see in their foreseeable future (kids, grandkids and POSSIBLY great grand kids). Also I highly doubt any incestuousness couple would have TWO children giving the possible risk, but even if they did and both came out fine, the idea that they will be in a relationship because their parents think it's good isn't true. As I said before, kids tend to be exposed to all sorts of opinions and cultures that what the parents say are pretty minuscule to what everyone else says so there is no garuntee that they will develop a romantic relationship with eachother, just as there's no garuntee that being raised to think incest is wrong will stop siblings from having a romantic relationship with eachother.

    You act like if it became legal everyone and their mothers would start in-breeding. A majority of people in the world think incest is wrong so the idea of it becoming widespread just because it becomes legal in some parts of the world is ridiculous. And even if it did happen, it wouldn't have any real effect on the world until generations later. If I have children then I wan't to make the world safe for them but I can't be compensating for god knows how many generations down the line.

    This comes down to something different.
    I am personally completely against limiting people's free will if they both consent to something as long as they are not insane and at an age where they can understand the consequences of their actions.
     
  10. Patman Bof

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    672
    I was basing my reasoning on the completely hypothetical assumption that I live in a secular democracy called France, that the subject was thrown on the table, and that a line had to be drawn somewhere. Otherwise, on a case to case basis, I wouldn' t raise any moral objection at an isolated incestuous reproduction.
     
  11. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Gender:
    Cisgender Male
    1,282
    Basically, my greatest concern is having a child in an incestuous relationship. I see nothing positive coming from a incestuous offspring, but plenty of negatives.
    I don't care if you're in a relationship if that is consensual, but it eventually leading to a child would be my only greatest concern, the rest I don't care too much and that can be dealt with by the family involved. I would even view the relationship more positively if the couple adopted, it would be a productive and truly fair thing to do for all involved.

    And now i'm watching people on tv talking about marrying second or third cousins. God, this is an incestuous day.

    So how long have you been in said relationship? I find it intriguing now to hear some actual first hand experience into the matter, it opens up my thoughts. And I have a number of questions in my head that are probably very personal and inappropriate so I will say now, I will tread lightly.
     
  12. Jube Formerly Chuck's

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Guess
    633
    It's been six years now.
     
  13. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Gender:
    Cisgender Male
    1,282
    Have either of you been in any other relationship? If not, have you not considered it before?
     
  14. Jube Formerly Chuck's

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Guess
    633
    Neither of us have ever been in another relationship.
    I had trouble connecting with females outside of friendship and she had just not found anyone to go out with. Apparently there was a friend of her's(guy) who liked her but she had apparently for lack of better terms "friend zoned" him.
     
  15. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Gender:
    Cisgender Male
    1,282
    I thought it might be something like that.
    Have you told anyone about it (apart from online) in your life before? Especially, have you told any family members?
     
  16. Jube Formerly Chuck's

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Guess
    633
    Unless she's told anyone else, my brother is the only person who knows of this.
     
  17. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Gender:
    Cisgender Male
    1,282
    Do you feel the need to hide the relationship for a reason?
     
  18. Jube Formerly Chuck's

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Guess
    633
    For social reasons we have to keep it a secret from significant officials(employers, bosses, etc).
    Other then that there's no real reason to hide it.
    The only real reason my brother is the only one who knows is because my friends aren't aware that she even exist and same with her friends.
    Plus for us it comes down to we WERE siblings.
     
  19. Styx That's me inside your head.

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    319
    Then I see nothing wrong with it. Incest with mutual consent is okay in my opinion. It shouldn't be illegal nor frowned upon.
     
  20. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Gender:
    Cisgender Male
    1,282
    I understand that. I'm not gonna say I necessarily endorse the idea, and have a number of negative facts and issues to put across, but I accept it. In your case anyway, maybe I would feel disgusted by other incest relationships, since the ones in them are in it for social and cultural reasons more then built on an actual relationship sicken me. It's my same thoughts on arranged marriages and generally forced opinion relationships.
    At least the both of you seem to see the clarity of the situation.

    DO you have a romantic and passionate relationship or a rather plutonic one?
    How much did you two change when you started to date each other?