No Thanks New 'Elite' Usergroup

Just putting in a bid for revamping Premium instead. Premium benefits were already rather scarce, with the software change they've been slashed even more, to the point where you're really not getting much of anything--I'd rather make Premium something more desirable, that more users will be motivated to work towards, than approach some kind of confusing tiered system.

I do realize the intention of this was to motivate those who reach Premium and basically just sit in the Spam Zone, and that's all well and good, but I think there are other ways to accomplish that. For one, if Premium is revamped & desirable, normal members will be motivated to post more replies and topics. Current Premiums may take interest in these topics, and move out of the time wasting sections. Secondly, we've had a great influx of ideas and developments within the staff, many of them that encourage people to post and participate as a community.

At the end of the day though, I don't see this really being the holy ark that will carry people from the Spam Zone. If they're more interested in posting there, the topics there, what goes on there, so be it. I wouldn't try to force people out of, say, The Playground or the Discussion forums, because people will stay where they're comfortable and interested.

Just me, though.

 

KHV has been around for 6 years now. Considering Premiums first came around in 2007, at the height of KHV activity, says quite a bit. Under the assumption KHV will last for 5 more years after this, I don't think it's that terrible having a user group added every 5 years. That's quite a long period of time. And about "wanting more." the perks are there as an incentive to get people to post more. Not because I think we need more goodies. I'm not even a Premium, and I'm spear-heading this.

Premiums are in the way, the face of the community members. They are the ones who are the veterans of the site, they've been around for a long time and are the most active posters on the site. Unfortunately, all that activity is in the Spam Zone. And new threads are a rare sight outside of that board. Getting Premiums to post more often and show their participation in the community will bring out normal members to post more often as well, since they also tend to be quieter.

You wouldn't have to divide the perks. Premiums already have theirs. There would just be additional ones for the Noble group. Also, keeping the colors of the usergroups the same would give them an identifying feature. So stop the color polls, and it will be a non-issue.[DOUBLEPOST=1346361005][/DOUBLEPOST]

A lot of your points, I just posted about in reply to Chev.

So I'm just going to point out this:

Yeah, we aren't doing a tiered system anymore.

 

2007 needs to stop being glorified by a lot of people--it was not a 'height' of activity to my knowledge, yes the site fell into a bit of a pit when DS sold the site and spdude abandoned us, because we were without:

1. Control over the site (basically, we couldn't update anything, make changes to the skins, pages, anything)
2. A way of recording videos

Now that we have all of that, we're trying to establish a new ground to stand on and improve not only our traffic but the site itself. Maybe 2007 did have the most posts and the most users registering--though I don't have any data that proves that true or false--but quality is more important than quantity still. And, speaking from experience, we have the most functional and I would say all-round productive staff right now than we've ever had.

I do not agree. They're the people who have accumulated a certain number of posts, and that we've chosen to reward. Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree! But I don't think that this is the way to do it.

It's a legitimate concern. We're already using a lot of usergroup colors, and that can be confusing for new members. Having yet another color floating around is a problem, to me.

It is still tiered though. It's already tiered. Premium is a higher tier of normal members. Noble would be a higher tier of Premium. I didn't mean tiered in terms of benefits, sorry if that was unclear.

 

Well, from the way I understand it 2007-2008 was the height of new posts threads being created and new members registering. I wasn't attempting to glorify it as the "golden days" or anything like that. It was really bustling back then though.

Now most premiums make quality posts already. They've been around long enough. They know the ropes. I don't think shit-posting will be as prominent in that regard. It will be more prominent if we try to get normal members to try to achieve premium. There have been quite a few members, which I won't name here, that have made spam posts. I think getting Premiums to post more outside of The Spam Zone will get normal members to follow suit.

There's also been a severe lack of both quality and quantity. So, I think getting Premiums to post more will bring both quality and quantity, as well as posts from normal members.

But they are the older members who've stuck around and constantly participated, even if they did just end up sticking to The Spam Zone. Anyways, I meant more that they are the veterans of the site that other members are going to look up to. If they see all their activity stay in The Spam Zone, they won't have much incentive to post other places either.

I would say that we should remove some perks from Noble and give it to Premium and have both a Premium Overhaul and a Noble usergroup. Make Premium more desirable and still bring out activity in older members. But, it's like tapping an empty well. There's not much water for everyone in the town. Unless more people bring perks to the table. Which is why I made that other thread.

Ash told me something a little while ago on Skype, and he said I could quote him here on it:

Ashwin thought Premiums were staff. Wouldn't that mean removing Premium username colors? No, it wouldn't.

I have two points to make on this:

• Those who have used forums before will know that there are non-staff members with a title
• Newbies will not

Adding another color won't change that.

 

Okay so, I was quoted (not sure why aside from my cycle statement) but I was just pointing out what others had already mentioned

These are the points that need addressing. Not...my posts I don't think? xD

So yes, from my personal stand-point. I agree with these and side with a premium revamping that would motivate the majority.

I also do not feel okay with simply stripping away color choices when they're already set up as a stapple thing without good reason. Not only that, I don't think the majority of the premiums would be content with the choice of colors (which is a perk) already being stripped from them because we have a new tier in usergroups.

Moreover, going on the implication that no perks are being taken away from premiums, also means that future perks need to be lower or separated from the Noble usergroup simply because the noble group is 'higher'. So say someone decides to suggest a perk for premiums? It needs to be lower than ' Nobles' which is already placing a margin of restriction that was not present before. That is also barring staff territory that premiums already have to be mindful of, so you're shortening the margin of possible benefits for premiums considerably.

 

Right now, I think this is a reason why we should revamp Premium instead of adding a new usergroup. Most members right now don't see premium as something worthy to spend time getting. Seeing premiums post more won't necessarily inspire them to post (in order to make Prem) if they don't think the Premium perks are worth it. I think they'll see Noble as the true goal, but considering that's even a further goal than Premium to them, I doubt most normies will be motivated enough to aim for it.

I'm not entirely sure how true this is, though. If anybody reading this can say that this case applies to you (You look up to Premiums and try to imitate their activity), can you let me know that I'm wrong here? I mean, I won't argue that most members see Premiums as the more experienced veterans that can easily help you out, if you need it, but I honestly don't think there's much of a "Well, premiums aren't active outside of the Spam Zone. Why should I be?" mindset.

Now this is the problem here :/ I agree entirely. There's not enough perks for everyone and spreading them throughout Premium and Noble will most likely make Noble the new "Premium" (Once someone hits Premium and gets all the new perks, they may not think the small amount of perks that Noble have is worth the extra 1500 posts). But I don't think the problem is that people aren't bringing enough perks to the table; I believe that it's simply that there aren't enough perks that will make the time and effort of reaching both classes seem worth it.

This is true^. To hop on the other side of the argument for a moment, I don't think this is a valid argument against Noble. To me, this is more of a valid argument for having the Color Code Legend at the bottom of the forum and explaining the different usergroups in The Rules or FAQ.

Anyway, all of that said, I still support Noble as a new Usergroup, but right now, I support rehauling Premium and giving that usergroup more perks more than I support Noble. Hopefully, in the future, there will be more perks that we can implement, but right now, especially with Xenforo, there seems to be a lack of them readily accessible to KHV.

 

So, I've re-read the thread, and I took out some time to really secure my thoughts about a Premium Overhaul. Because, as I said in my last post, I would like for there to be both. It would get more activity from regular members and Premiums. The issue, is as I said, there just aren't enough (known) perks to get us both, at least at the moment. So, I think we need to further develop perks that we can have, whether it be in the form of a mod, or community participation (ex: Radio DJ Slot), or even something like having a few extra lines in the signature. Because, at this point, I would like to try, try, try to have both. Because that way, we can increase activity all around instead of just with certain groups. So I'd really hope we can take the opportunity to meet in the middle develop perks for both.

 

Alright, I've been monitoring this thread on the side for a bit. You know just checking to see how it's been going. And, expectedly, we're at a deadlock again. This happens a lot when people just don't see things the same way. So I'm going to offer a bit of my own perspective for you guys to use as you see fit. Sounds fun, doesn't it?

I'm going to start by saying, moving to this newfangled nonsense doesn't really change my view of this because I'm not going to look at this from a purely logical perspective since people aren't purely logical beings. In this world there are a lot of prizes that are there to be prizes. You don't get much use out of them and you don't get much recognition for them. But people with struggle and fight and even cheat for them. This is because people like winning and achieving regardless of what it actually puts them forward. Trophies and Achievements are a prime example. They don't add to gameplay, but people go get them anyways. This phenomenon is important to my point because Premium membership and potentially Elite/Noble/Super Saiyan membership are the same thing.

People want to have what they don't have, if you add more things they don't have they'll go get them. Fact.

But does this address the purported activity problem? I'd actually posit, no. Surprising, is it not? It probably won't actually solve the activity problem (that I don't actually see(hashtag lives under rock.))It'll make some people more active and not others and who's to say how long it'll increase activity since i's a one time only deal, it'll probably just end up like prem, something some people get and like and something others don't. It's very similar to just raising prem requirements at this point. I can guarantee that it will increase activity a bit but probably not as much as is being argued. Whether that's enough or not isn't up to me, is it? Regardless, not everyone wants shiny new things and not everyone cares about the perks regardless of what they are. Look at me. Five years, no prem, doesn't care.

So why am I posting if I'm just going to say decide for yourselves as you've been trying to for X pages? It's because I feel like it, primarily. But there's more to say yet.

If we want to improve or increase activity we've got to give them another reason since our community isn't homogeneous. This method is giving people a goal that they may only achieve once. Once they've achieved it they're done and they can decide whether they want to keep going or not. It's also a goal that is achieved through perseverance rather than quality. So some people won't care at all. So what solves these two issues and adds anotehr reason for people to post? Competition. People love competition. Well, some people don't because either they are losers or they feel bad for losers. Either way, humans compete, no question. Now I ask you what's been a pretty steadily active section(on and off at times but still reliable at the end of the day) for pretty much the last 5 years? Signature of the Week. What do people that are losers or feel sorry for losers like instead of competitions? They probably like community projects that don't involve winning or losing, just having fun together. So what is like this and draws people to post and contribute every month or so? KHV Chorus.

You guys see my point here? Community projects like Sig of the Week and KHVC and Castle Oblivion and all those other things tend to draw users and get people to post and contribute to the best of their abilities. Hell, even Traditional Art of the Month is more active than normal Traditional Art. Not hard given it's competing with the deadest section on the site, but that only strengthens my point. We can make any section active if we give a structured activity or competition for people to participate it. But some people aren't happy with just their name up on a thread that they'll never look at. So be it, you can't solve a problem with only one solution.

So, I guess that the activity problem is best solved with more than one implemented action. A new usergroup for some, community projects for others and something else for others perhaps. But regardless, I've seen a lot of people trying to act like it has to be one solution to one problem and if it isn't, the solution is no good. I disagree and feel that three solutions that are on their own insufficient can be just as good as one master solution if not better.

This may not be to the purpose of the thread, but I feel like if you're going to bring up a problem ,you might as well get it solved.

Proposed course of action: Revamp prems to have more stuff to counterbalance losses made by the site jump. Add Elite/Noble/God Tier usergroup for those that can't stand the pinkshit names and want to be forum helpers, they will come. Find the sections you want more active and see if you can get someone, anyone, to try and set up some sort of competition or activity to get them to be there. If you can't do that just try to think of a way that you think will do it. Poll some people, make a think tank, whatever.

I'm tired and that was probably nonsensical.

 

And this is really what we're trying to work on right now.

(I realize this post doesn't add much to it but just saying, we are very much aware of this fact and are cooking up at least two things, in addition to our current projects etc).

 

So I read Jiku's post, and I agree with it 100%. Let's attack this from all angles and implement the Premium Overhaul, Noble Usergroup, and Activities & Competitions.

Now, you guys are already working on several projects. That's gonna take many man hours. And it would be a long time before those activities are implemented. And those would have to be looked after and managed.

So, I say, let's implement Premium Overhaul and the Noble Usergroup as soon as possible, because Jerome and I did most of the leg work already. We developed this from scratch and got the support for it, and it's fairly finalized after taking all the feedback from the site's members. There was even a thread specifically for perk discussion: http://kh-vids.net/threads/noble-user-group-perk-discussion.132465/

Implementing the Premium Overhaul and Noble Usergroup would be a static thing and not something you have to keep up with, unlike Community Competitions and Activities. So, instead of waiting to bring around those projects, let's get a head start and implement Noble and Premium Overhaul.

 

Umm...a lot of people have addressed a lot of issues with making a new usergroup. I think maybe addressing those issues is something that those in support should work towards first and foremost.

Attack lack of activity you mean? If so, following Jiku's suggestion we would be making lots of competitions and activities in the Spam Zone. Which, if I recall, is in contradiction with part of why you wanted to have a new usergroup.

Yeah, that's right. We do have several projects. We have 21 possible community activities. And out of those, 17 are up for happening on a current basis. And out of that 13 are actually active. Most of the sections pertaining to interests and Spam actually have activities in them.


So lack of activity incentive isn't the problem. So here's where I differ. Having activities(competitions, teamwork, games) will not actually fix a perceived lack of activity. We have many successful activities and some that aren't as...the point being, that aspect is not actually one of the problems to be addressed.

Okay umm...I think you should address the contras first, though :x

And in actuality looking over your perks, most of them are less than static. They, in fact require staff to work on certain aspects on a current basis. Which isn't bad or anything, but they DO actually require to be watched over.

Let's bring the watching over aspect to the forefront for a bit. I think those are great ideas, and they could help a bit to make the upper tier community to feel like they can do more. I commend you for putting them forward.

...except, and I'm sorry to say this, a lot of people are really entitled and do not take any sort of repair in abusing their privileges. Sadly, having a lot of posts doesn't exclude you from not being a proper individual. I'll go into more detail about this in the perks thread.

In the end, I think I have to agree with Jiku on a few aspects. This isn't really about the activity and more about having a shiny new toy, and that it won't actually resolve perceived activity issues.

And onto the aspect of it being a novelty, many things can be a novelty. Heck, the site itself has turned into a novelty. Making a new tier in the usergroups just to have an aspect of novelty is not why you have 'special' user groups. Achievement systems maybe, but not another usergroup division that adds more issues when coming into fruition that what it gives out (and currently, the benefits are still debatable)

adding to that what I pointed out regarding activities? Yeah, the miraculous trifecta of activity boosting isn't actually a holy panacea ;L

And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm cock-blocking ideas? I simply disagree and I'm sorry if somehow my position is suddenly meant to be taken as 'staff blocking' but this is my view and my opinion, in which I usually bring good points and try to stay as objective as possible :c