Mafia [Mafia] Miami Haze ~ GAME OVER (MAFIA WINS)

Now that would be hilarious.

 

Vote: Bite the Dust

Gotta get this member into the discussion. As I've said, the cryptic nature and general low number of his/her(?) messages makes me feel uneasy, more so than anyone else right now.

 

Before I have to read all of these papers, I'd like to hear a bit from @Bite the Dust


You have two votes against you, and you're one of the three people cited most often as being "quiet. "

It's late in the game, and the stakes are high. At the very least, TwilightBlader and MoK have made comments over the course of the day.
Hell, even What? spoke up to defend himself.​

I'm sure we'd all like to hear you say something in your defense. We can't leave anything to chance now. One way or another, this whole thing is almost over.[DOUBLEPOST=1410989014][/DOUBLEPOST]please excuse me i'm really just having too much fun with AA gifs...

 

This Votal Title Accidentally Left Blank

• Bite the Dust - 2 (Vivi, Hayabusa)
• Cstar - 1 (Moksha)
• Hyuge - 1 (What?)

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is Thursday, September 18th, at 8 ᴘ.ᴍ. (EST).

You may have noticed I got the player/lynch count wrong. It is now fixed. Unless I just now miscounted and broke it.

 

It's correct now.

/dead post

 

Ah, my friend, it is good that you have finally shown up, though it seems you still don't see the full implications of my proposal.

Note the overly highlighted bit. Before I started writing my last post, the possibility that more than one Vig could turn up did indeed cross my mind and I became somewhat weary of it happening, not unlike yourself. But then it hit me. THAT would be the best possible outcome.

Allow me to walk you through my thought process. Tell me, would a regular Townie choose to go out of their way to impersonate the Vig? I most certainly do not think so, not if they have the town's best interest in mind. Now I ask you, what about the Mafia? Would they have reason to make this claim? You yourself said so; the thing the Mafia want the most is to confuse and misdirect us, which is why we'd probably see one, maybe two impostors, besides Mish of course. This leads me directly to my final (rhetorical) question: at what cost?

The short answer, and simply the last thing any Mafia could possibly want: exposure. And a truckload of that, if you ask me. To illustrate, imagine two people once again, besides Mish claim to be the Vig. Right off the bat we can be pretty much certain that only one of them is the real deal, while the other has to be Mafia, for the reasons presented above. All we have to do is not lynch either of them, and let me tell you why. Come tomorrow (in game terms), Mish dies, Vig dies, same old stuff we've known for a while, BUT! We also get the nice little bonus Mafioso in the bag, maybe two if we're lucky. If this isn't exactly the same as them turning themselves in, I don't know what is.

In essence, if there's any Mafioso reading this, well, I guess I just saved you the trouble of doing such a reckless move. Too bad, huh. At any rate, regardless if we take the Vig's word for it or more than one comes up, they, and by an extent we, stil have nothing to lose. As such, I will vigorously continue to support my proposal.

Oh, and I'll leave you all with a little tip -- more of a challenge, because I have clearly written too much for a single post. Posts #529, #808 and #924 have something in common, or rather, a key piece of evidence that might just help prove a certain player's innocence. Can you find it?

 

Please excuse errors due to my current fatigued state.

Fair factor to consider, but that is not the only method of seeding discord and mistrust, from my understanding. Even if only one vigilante reveals themselves, is it not entirely possible that the Mafia may work together to undermine this hypothetical-actual-vigilante as the town's lynch in itself and therefore take out our only method of killing Mish while simultaneously damning the Town through defeating both their lynch vote and their possibility of a mafia kill in the night time? Certainly may Mish be lynched the next day but it heavily cripples our power over the mafia while sowing more confusion playing into their hands through an easy methodology of labeling it as accidental in the vein of previous town-lynches. This becomes further muddled with multiple Vig claims. Keeping in mind that the mafia know who the Vig is at this point. I do find the idea interesting and potentially useful, but its effectiveness really depends on the situation in which the Vig decides to reveal themselves (if they choose to), and more importantly the quantity of town trust that can be established around making such a claim.

Mafia claiming to be Vig would be an ideal situation of potentially bagging another mafia, but the very act of the mafia doing so is an immense risk that does not have to be taken in a situation where the mafia are this close to the end of the game and this is precisely the point at which the mafia can help further influence a town that has become more quiet after the disappearance of the more vocal members.

I do find the thought process reasonable, but the circumstances of the mafia needing to initiate it would place the aforementioned unnecessary risk on them, no? There are other ways to misdirect rather than doubleclaiming without needing to balance the risk, especially when they already know the identity of the Vig and can use other methods to indirectly off them before they get a chance to initiate Mish's death.

Fair. Vivi was not the highest on my list of potential Mafia for a number of reasons, but I cannot be certain, as of yet, as to it being actual innocence in misunderstanding the Mafia count or deliberate misleading; reasons around which I feel the most careful around when looking at post #808, where we have a number of different leads presented in the context of many possible members. (I find it in personal interest to note, as well, that, in the hypothetical assumption that Vivi is Mafia, that the selection-of-four included claims to 2 Mafia, one of which was confirmed town but another of which in my personal interests I do find a bit suspicious, Cat, though certainly it could be coincidence?) Reflecting on this, I imagine that the best justification may be to mislead into allowing players' pools of suspicion to expand to include more potential town members that can continue to help eliminate them indirectly. Fairly so, it may be a reach. Furthermore, I am not completely certain of how many others truly believed there were 5 mafia members while in the past. I would come to understand you originally thought so based on Vivi's post prior to your own regarding the 20% comment and your lateness coming into the game? In fact, it may be in our best interest to get as many of us to mention how many mafia we assumed there were in the earlier parts of the game? At least four other people may be ideal, perhaps. In that way there would be at least three Mafia who could potentially lie in claiming five and one (or hopefully more) townie(s) that could also claim five and perhaps help Vivi's case a bit. But I digress. He is again not the top of the suspicion list for various reasons, and this point may only be one component of it. But I am not detracting him from my list of suspicions for this reason alone.

I will keep my vote on hyuge for now, but I doubt I will be active until the afternoon from now on (tests are important!) We must stay vigilant. I feel that as the deadline draws close we should begin to settle down on individuals we have and can acquire more concrete proof for, beyond the current trend on Bite the Dust who has been consistently inactive -- which while suspicious, is not necessarily the only basis to suspicion when there are many silent members in equality (myself included, recently, for the school reasons stated), especially when there are individuals we can further pursue cases upon with reasonable grounds of suspicion. Bite the Dust has been consistently inactive in both games he has played thus far; it is not a concrete Mafia tell, it is very much a character trait. I want to hear from him myself as well, but in the case we need to double down and get a lynch going it might be best to focus on people we, again, have more concrete evidence towards pursuing.

 

Intentional mafia undermining can be very easily avoided if town agrees to concede lynch-free privileges for anyone who decides to speak up. Your counterexample defeats the main purpose of this operation, which is to improve our chances of not lynching the Vig.

The secondary purpose, which is to identify possible impostors, only comes into play if and only if more than one Vig appears. It doesn't have to happen, just treat it as an insurance for anyone that tries to boycott the real Vig's claim, if you will. I was responding to a specific concern that might have been included in "Seeding discord and distrust". The best argument I can offer you at this point is Makaze's case. Was there any significant distrust directed at Makaze other than that of his prime suspect, Mish, a now-confirmed Mafiosa? I used significant because there was indeed a bit of unease at first, but actual town members shouldn't distrust role claims in the first place. Much of these fears we are considering have very little application in a concrete situation, and I believe losing ourselves in these trains of thought is by all means unwise and impractical.

Truth be told, at this rate, with so little time left (dang, this round's short) it's better to leave my suggestion as it is, just a suggestion. It definitely won't cost us the game, or so I hope.

It is in fact extremely unlikely that someone would include those bits deliberately, simply because no one in the Mafia has the ability to read minds in order to know under which assumptions the other players are working before they are exposed. I'd even go as far as saying that the level of anticipation required to even consider pulling off something like this is unreal. No, my own assumption was solely based on my experience with Masquerade in Salem, in which, funnily enough, I was part of the Mafia, so I actually have some minimal insight on what it's like to be one of the bad guys.

Now, I was planning to keep the cards to myself until later in the game hoping I could gather some more intel by playing sheep for a bit, but I guess that's not working out either. My suspect list is pretty narrow at the moment. I believe Cat~ is the most suspicious of the bunch; her posting patterns and frequency match Mafia behavior very well in my eyes. In fact, it was exactly why I asked for info specifically on her as my first move. I planned to play along with her stances, which is why my post immediately following her list sounded so indecisive. Didn't get me anywhere, but still worth the shot. Well, her list has quite a few problems, especially the cstar part, in which she dedicated what was supposed to be an accusatory paragraph almost entirely to defending Moksha. It was not until the very last couple of lines that she finally brings cstar up. This gives me enough reason to not only Vote: Cat~, but highly suspect Moksha as well. I find lynching Cat~ to be a sensible move, and that it would provide us with a good deal of information.

My bedside 2 cents are looking an awful lot like a quarter. Certainly enough for the day...

 

I'm not gonna argue the points against me because I get that my activity (and sometimes lack thereof) have made me a target, but since I don't have a lot of time to make any points at 8 am anyway I'm just going to drop my vote in and see if anyone else speaks before I post more detailed thoughts later today.

/ /Vote: Killian Jones (hyuge)/ /

 

Considering the dismal state of the votes and the effort active posters have put forth so far, I'm extending the deadline into tomorrow. More details at the previously allotted deadline.

 

hey guys I have this crazy idea. Why don't we lynch Mish?

I know this sounds counter productive, and you guys are saying "we'll have the vig handle it" but how do we know, now that we know the Mafia know who the vig is, that they won't kill the vig? I mean, they have a usefulness for the redirector, sure, but if we go after someone and lynch an innocent townie and they decide, "We used them once, we don't need to use them again since they know we know them." and kill the vig off?

It's more of a "better safe than sorry" strategy than anything, and I know we were intentionally keeping Mish alive to find more mafia at the time. But that we before we realized they too know who the vig is (or maybe they just found out that last round, I don't know) and since we KNOW Mish is mafia, I think we should just go for it.

and with that said: vote: Mish

 

@cstar
There is no doubt that the Mafia are going to kill them next. The good news is that, as clarified by Nova in response to Makaze's question, the Vig's action will still take effect even if they are killed on the same night. Since the Redirector can't target the same person twice in a row, there's nothing else to stop the Vig from taking out Mish.

The basic idea is to not waste a turn on her when we could have a chance at uncovering more Mafia, even if just a small one. Hope this helps.

 

Spoiler

Mechanic trivia:

All night actions succeed even if the user dies. I got my last Watch result even though I died. I just didn't live to tell about it.

The vig's action affects the game even if they aren't there to tell about the result.

Night actions can only be stopped by another night role such as the Hooker or Redirector.

They can also be prevented by killing the user during the Day before they can take the Night action.

 

-sighs- every mafia game I have ever played outside of these ones has had completely different rules than this.

unvote: mish

Makaze huuuusssssh

 

Mak you only get one dead post. Stay dead.

__// Vote: Bite the Dust[DOUBLEPOST=1411083984][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh i didnt see nova's post so i actually have time to write a post.

__// Unvote: Bite the Dust

 

Sunset Overtime

• Bite the Dust - 2 (Vivi, Hayabusa)
• Cstar - 1 (Moksha)
• Hyuge - 2 (What?, Cat~)

With 11 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is Friday, September 19th, at 8 ᴘ.ᴍ. (EST).

All right, so here's the deal: I'm extending the deadline until 8 tomorrow, like it says. I'm also pinging the living shit out of people who haven't voted yet to try and get them to throw in some input. Strikes/modkills may follow.

Also, @Makaze: If you post again, you're out of the next three games. You're not exempt from the rules just because you're impatient. Get a hold of yourself.

 

sorry I don't want to be the correcting guy but Cat voted for hyuge [sorry]

 

Nobody needs to apologize for correcting me, I have no illusions about my own absent-mindedness :v (Unless you're dead, in which case shush)

 

Okay so I'm going to be very selective with what I say because I am already on the chopping block as it is and I don't want to make matters worse. I've been keeping track of the thread the last couple of days, but due to only having internet at work and consistently working doubles this week, I've been too busy / dead to post. I'm actually surprised I didn't get chastised for not saying anything when plenty was said about me. I just didn't want to have a bunch of one - liners and come off as sketchy and have more people be like "you're totally mafia because of your lack of content!" when I know I'm not mafia, but there's not a whole lot left for me to say in my defense.

First, I think having the Vigilante come forward is a poor decision. The only way it would benefit us is to keep us from accidentally lynching them. I feel like if the Vigilante was in danger of being lynched then he / she would have said something by now, but they haven't so it's probably safe to assume it's not someone high on the suspect list. The mafia already knows who the Vigilante is. They would have figured that out the moment they saw there were two town dead instead of one town and one mafia. I'm sure they discuss who the Redirector should pick during their night chats just like how they discuss who to kill. There's no reason for us to believe otherwise and I think it's safer for us to look at it that way rather than thinking the Redirector is like the town roles in which they act entirely on their own. The mafia is a team meant to sew discord within the ranks of the town.

On that note, @Judge Sunrose, I'm not necessarily defending Vivi, but I wanted to make it clear that Nova never said until you went to ask him -- or whatever it is you did to find out -- that there were only four mafia in this game. It was a safe assumption for Vivi to say there were five all the times that he did, because there were five mafia members in the last game. Something you should know fairly well considering you were one of them.

I'm not sure what else I can say at this point to prove my innocence. I don't really see any of my actions having been a direct attempt to harm the town. I voted for people I thought were mafia, just like everyone else. There was a lot of chaos when Mish was outed and I acted instinctively because I didn't really have time for posting or the like. If someone jumped out saying "THIS PERSON IS MAFIA" wouldn't the rest of you be inclined to immediately vote for that person as well? I mean, that's what we did when Below sacrificed himself to reveal that he was the detective. He gave us a list of people he thought were most likely mafia and we jumped on the names given and took out two back to back pretty much. Yes, I back peddled and unvoted when I was jumped on for it, but that was because things were jumbled and hard to follow and a hard lynch wouldn't allow us to gather more information. No one jumped on Vivi's case for immediately voting Mish, and he did it first, just mine because I unvoted after. Which is whatever in my book. The way I look at it, we still haven't killed any mafia and that isn't a success in my book. Yes, we know Mish is mafia, but that does us little good. The mafia are only going to send her out for kills, rendering the Tracker useless.

The Tracker isn't gathering any new information because the other mafia suspects aren't going to move in for a kill when they have someone that is already found out and following Mish is pointless because the only information they gleam off of it is the same information the rest of us get the next morning.

Anyway, that's about all I have for now. I'm going to continue to go with my gut since we have another day. Depending on what the votes are like closer to the end of the day tomorrow, I may change it so that we don't end up with a No Lynch like we almost got today, which is the main reason as to why I had initially voted BtD. His utter lack of participation is not something to be proud of. He could just be a negligent townie, but there is always the possibility of him being a super lurking mafia member.

For now, my vote will rest with @TwilightBlader.

__// Vote: TwilightBlader

 

technically guys, we don't have a confirmed number of mafia... do we? because I missed confirmation of that.