Kingdom Hearts Alignment System.

Discussion in 'General & Upcoming Kingdom Hearts' started by ReverofEnola, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Do you agree with the alignment system portrayed in this pic?
    [​IMG]

    As for me I feel like both Ansem and Master Xehanort should be switch. :/
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  2. Hexin Hollow Bastion Committee

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    I have to disagree. Sora and Riku are both Lawful Good. Sora has always been Lawful Good, while RIku recently became Lawful Good. :D
     
  3. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    You sure?

    Lawful Good implies that they 90% of the time they follow the law in order to pursue the greater good. Good examples would be like Coby or Smoker from One Piece or Wynne from Dragon Age.

    Sora is Good but I don't really see him following the law most of the time. I mean most of the worlds he went he had to break the rules of that world in order to pursue the greater good. Wonderland is a great example of this.

    Neutral Good implies he follows the law 50% of the time in order to pursue the greater good.

    As for Riku I really don't know...
     
  4. Mixt The dude that does the thing

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    I would say your good tier looks fine.

    In the neutral tier, I think Namine makes a better Lawful neutral than Roxas. Although neither really feel like a true neutral to me. Maybe Xion would fit better there?

    And the evil tier gets strange in KH, but I'm not sure I could do it better. Xehanort is definitely chaotic, but his counterparts generally are as well. The only way Xemnas gets away with being "lawful" is because he created organization 13 and thus follows those laws he made. Marluxia might make a good alternative, but his end goal is mutiny which is definitely not lawful.
     
  5. tamale Anyone can wear the mask. YOU can wear the mask!

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    Here are some choices I might put:


    Lawful Good.............Neutral Good...............Chaotic Good

    Yen Sid....................Sora...........................Terra

    Lawful Neutral..........True Neutral...............Chaotic Neutral

    DiZ.........................Kingdom Hearts............Pete

    Lawful Evil...............Neutral Evil................Chaotic Evil

    Saix........................Marluxia.....................Master Xehanort
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2015
  6. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Well this isn't even mine. I just found on this on Google.

    As for the lawful neutral. I think they are classifying how Roxas felt when he was JUST in the Organization. Lawful Neutral means they always put the law before their own personal matters. Even though Roxas did not feel too comfortable working for the Organization at the end of the day he always did his job.

    Xion I don't think would fit better because she was the main reason why Roxas defected. Roxas would have still been lawful neutral if it wasn't for her. Plus, where as Roxas was sort of content with his situation Xion actually went on and did something about it.

    As for Xehanort thing. I agree with Xemnas but I see Ansem as being more chaotic than Xehanort because dude was actually a Heartless and it wanted to drown anything and everything in darkness. Master Xehanort is a COMBINATION of Ansem and Xemnas so he has shades of being both Lawful and Chaotic. So he is more neutral evil to me.

    Now that I think about it Saix is WAY more fitted to lawful evil than Xemnas. Kingdom Hearts is also good for being True Neutral. I still think Axel is better for Chaotic Neutral (especially in Chain of Memories.) and Master Xehanort is still Neutral Evil to me. Other than that great list. :)
     
  7. Vladimir Makarov Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Its been awhile, but i'd like to throw in my two cents.

    My biggest thing is that I emphatically disagree that Master Xehanort is Chaotic Evil. If you ask me, he is one of the best examples of a Lawful Evil character. (Coming from someone who thoroughly enjoys playing Lawful Evil characters in D&D) I was listening to a D&D podcast awhile back where they were discussing evil campaigns, and one of the hosts laid out the difference between Lawful Evil, Neutral Evil (to a lesser degree), and Chaotic Evil very simply. While the specifics of the discussion escape me, one part really stood out to me. Lawful Evil characters tend to form rigid organizations and keep contracts or other agreements, though they can find ways to legally control the agreement. i.e. a corrupt King makes a law for everything, so SOMEONE is always in violation of SOME law, and so they can take out rivals that way. They also value order, and most importantly, they think long term.

    Chaotic Evil characters tend to be very short term thinkers because they are looking for instant gratification. As we know, Master Xehanort's plan has stretched over ten years. It's full of contingencies and many complex threads that are all working towards Master Xehanort's ultimate goal. On top of that is who he is looking to benefit. We know he wants light and darkness in equal balance, but the reason he is doing it is more for everyone else than for himself. He truly believes that this is the best thing for everyone. (as far as we know) That doesn't sound like Chaotic Evil thinking to me. Someone who is Chaotic Evil wouldn't even care about benefiting others. In fact, they may actively try to avoid benefiting others even indirectly because they see everyone they benefit as a potential enemy they are helping.

    So yeah, just my thoughts.
     
  8. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Exactly! MX maybe evil however he has a sort of technique or strategy to his madness.

    Now what do you think about Ansem SoD as being Chaotic Evil?
     
  9. Vladimir Makarov Gummi Ship Junkie

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    I actually think that Ansem SoD actually fits the bill for Lawful Evil as well... well, for the most part. Whenever we take a look at Master Xehanort's other incarnations, the lines get a little more blurred. If Ansem SoD was a standalone character and not an incarnation of Master Xehanort, I would say with 60% certainty that he is Chaotic Evil. (40% Neutral Evil) But since he is an incarnation of Master Xehanort and is working towards Master Xehanort's goal for the same reason, i'd say that makes him Lawful Evil as well. ^^
     
  10. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    I forgot that Ansem SoD is working for MX now. However, he was interpreted in KH and CoM he seemed more Chaotic Evil so I agree that if he were a standalone character he would be more Chaotic Evil.
    So who in Kingdom Hearts would make a better representation of Chaotic Evil?
    On a side note I still think Saix is better representation of Lawful Evil.
     
  11. Vladimir Makarov Gummi Ship Junkie

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    In my opinion, the best representation of Chaotic Evil in the Kingdom Hearts series is probably the Heartless themselves. They have no care for anything besides what they want and they will do anything to achieve it. We want hearts, so we're going to take yours. Don't like it? Too bad. They are also impulsive and function solely on instinct, which attests to their Chaotic nature. Like I said before, instant gratification. xD

    And I think i'd have to agree about Saix. His blind and unwavering loyalty to Xemnas/Xehanort and by extension the Organization, seems highly Lawful, but he's a really big jerk. Makes Sora get on his knees and BEG to see Kairi. Even if he didn't fake him out, that's messed up. So he's definitely Evil.
     
  12. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    I knew you were going to say the Heartless. That reasoning also made me think that Ansem SoD should have been classified more so as being Chaotic Evil.
     
  13. Vladimir Makarov Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Haha, that's funny. xD But yeah, I actually had the same thought cross my mind during our conversation, which is why I would qualify him as Chaotic Evil if he were a standalone character. To put it another way, Ansem SoD in KH 1 is a character that I would classify as Chaotic Evil. His motives and means are clearly indicative of that. If he has some ulterior motive for serving Xehanort (or if he had an ulterior motive to begin with, which is something my friends and I have theorized about), i'd consider him Chaotic Evil to this day. It's just... the whole serving Xehanort thing is what makes me unsure.
     
  14. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Alright now what do you think about Master Eraqus being classified as Lawful Good?
     
  15. Vladimir Makarov Gummi Ship Junkie

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    I actually think Master Eraqus better fits into the Lawful Neutral category. A character who is Lawful Neutral supports order, law, tradition, and the greater good in general without regard for their personal beliefs. For example, he was perfectly willing to kill Ventus to prevent Master Xehanort from achieving his goal and tried to kill Terra, a man he thought of as a son, when he tried to protect him. Someone who is Lawful Good would NEVER do something like that. Their love and care for their friends and family outranks their concern for the greater good.
     
  16. Menos Grande Kingdom Keeper

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    Even though Xemnas and Ansem SoD are working for Xehanort, they truly don't know do they?
    If I am not mistaken, they only know the "truth" while time traveling, when they come back to their specific time they lose all their memories of the future (so Young Xehanort doesn't have future knowledge, even though Master Xehanort had put him in the "right track"? He whould just leave them do their thing because it would end where he needed them).
    Because I really think that each plan of each Xehanort incarnations plans could pay off if was not by Sora's meddling, I could think Ansem SoD as Neutral evil, as we always saw him as a "part of Riku", he would help Riku most of the times, even with an evil agenda, Also as a pursuer of knowledge it makes me think that he probably doesn't do things only for the sake of evil, but because he sees darkness as the "truth", so is more like he doesn't know better?
     
  17. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    I see why you think Ansem SoD is neutral evil. You think that SoD strikes a good balance between wanting darkness for everything and aiding Riku. Because of this he balances out being Chaotic as well as Lawful.

    However, if I recall in Chain of Memories I was always thought it was DiZ helping out Riku most of the time in the game. Because not only does is he the "Voice" for Riku but he also impersonated Ansem (which is kind of funny) several times throughout the game as well. Such as when you fight Ansem in the beginning of the game or when you go to Twilight Town. This kind of discredits the idea of Ansem actually helping Riku throughout most of the game.

    Plus, when you said "so is more like he doesn't know better?" That sounds like Chaotic Evil because they are in fact more of a destructive force who doesn't know any better like the Heartless. Which Ansem SoD is.

    Lol I almost forgot about that. So what would classify him as or who would make a better example for Lawful Good? Because I really don't see Donald as the poster child for that.

    On a side note, I think Vanitas is a bit more Chaotic Evil than Ansem SoD despite the fact he worked for MX.
     
  18. Vladimir Makarov Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Ventus most definitely fits the bill to me. He values light and order, and has a deep love for his friends to the point where he would do anything to save them, even sacrifice himself.

    As for Vanitas, I find myself agreeing. He takes what he wants, when he wants it. He is rotten to the core and has nothing redeemable about him. Not to mention he is, in many ways, Ventus's opposite.

    Now, are there any we're missing?

    I was under the impression that Ansem SoD and Xemnas knew what they were doing the whole time. I thought that since they were incarnations of Xehanort and had his memories, that they were aware of his plan.
     
  19. ReverofEnola Gummi Ship Junkie

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    Chaotic Neutral seems to be the one.

    This means that they are the ultimate free spirit and they do things just for the heck of it. Just like Chaotic Evil however, they don't have a particular allegiance to good OR evil. The two examples we have are Pete and Axel. Pete I really don't understand because the dude is obviously aligned with Maleficent. The only time Pete actually does breaks his standard allegiance is when both he and Maleficent defeat the enemies pursuing Sora, Riku and the gang when they are about to fight Xemnas.

    Axel on the other hand I think is a pretty good example. In CoM at he was aligned with the Floor Trio then he released Namine, killed Vexen, and got into a fight with Marluxia (and was even willing to kill Namine in said fight despite the fact he released her). Then in Riku's story he was apparently aligned with the Basement Trio but like he killed Vexen AND had the Replica get rid of Zexen as well. We later learn however that he was teamed up with the Organization (who wasn't in the castle) and Saix.

    However, despite having an "allegiance" with them he still betrays the Organization several times throughout KHII. This is because he kidnaps Kairi, messes with Sora throughout his adventure, and sacrifices himself at the end of the game so that Sora could break through their ranks. Plus, even though he did try capturing Roxas because they ordered him too he only did it because he wanted to Roxas as well.
     
  20. Menos Grande Kingdom Keeper

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    My take on Ansem SoD is that he seeks darkness above all else because he found out that darkness was a source of knowledge and power without equal (thus creating the heartless emblems), If he had found out a way to harness light like he did darkness he would probably don't mind use it as well or instead. He uses darkness for "enlightenment", but was corrupted in the process. It is different than Xehanort that knew both light and darkness and seeks a balance (or at least he says so). Ansem also thought that Kingdom hearts was "Darkness", and was surprised to know that in truth it was light. Xehanort obviously knew that KH was light, because he knew the tales of the keyblade war, so he is not opposed to "use light", like he did "creating ventus", and was aware of the princess of heart, he became the embodiment of darkness because he needs his 13 dark parts to create a new keyblade war, as 7 lights were already there for harvesting.
    And that is way I think Ansem was neutral (not to mention that he and Sora were the only ones not corrupted by the darkness when became a Heartless, so one should think that can be some good in him?). Not trying to justify his actions, he would let all worlds die for his objective, but at the same time is the "only path he knows" ?