How important is...that?

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by T3F, May 24, 2015.

  1. 61 No. B

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    If there were fundamental differences in the way we approached relationships and my partner was unwilling to compromise, I would end the relationship. Given that healthy, functioning relationships are built upon just that, I would expect my partner to meet me somewhere, just like I would be expected to respect their... condition? I don't know what it is. That's wonderful for you if you can make the relationship work, but if I was the one being held to a certain standard on the condition that I could not hold my partner to the very same standard, then that's an immediate red flag for future understanding and communication problems.
     
  2. Boy Wonder Dark Phoenix in Training

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    I know and I understand all that fully. My point is simply that I couldn't do it for the reasons that Patman, Incognitus, and C have said. I understand that each relationship and each person is different so the standards should definitely be communicated. I'm just saying that I don't think it's fair that the non-asexual has to give up sex for as long as they're with an asexual who is completely against the idea of having it. Just like Princess<3 said, doing them a favor because you love them is what I see is being asked of the non-asexual, but the no-sex thing for them is permanent as opposed to a sexual favor from the asexual occasionally. Now, granted, as Patman said, I personally wouldn't be satisfied knowing that my partner isn't enjoying it or might not even want it (hell, I don't think my girlfriend fully enjoys it!). That said, being in a committed relationship as two fully heterosexual persons, one of which definitely with a bigger sex drive than the other (but both with at the least, an "average" sex drive), there have been times in my relationship where either I or my girlfriend wasn't entirely in the mood, but the other was. There's a compromise there.
    My issue with the situation with an asexual is the lack of a sex drive, hence why I'm iffy on whether or not it's similar to rape. It's one thing for my girlfriend to talk me into sex after work when I'm tired and I give in, it's another thing if I had no desire to have sex ever and I was coerced into it.
     
  3. GhettoXemnas literally dead inside

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    I feel as a responsible human if you want to be in a relationship you should know what you want and know what your partner wants so if sexual activity is high on the desire list logically you probably shouldn't enter into a relationship with someone who is asexual unless you guys iron out the rules and regulations for an open relationship of sorts.
     
  4. Misty gimme kiss

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    First of all, good for you, Amethyst, on reaching this point with your sexuality. Uncertainty sucks and throws everything in a tizzy, I'm glad you're (starting to) reach a point that you're feeling right about, even if you're still figuring out the particulars.
    This is a minor nitpick, but sleeping with people outside your relationship isn't absolutely cheating. It depends on the terms of the relationship. There are open relationships, poly relationships, a whole slew of different arrangements -- and as long as everyone is happy with and consenting to the terms, it's all good with me. I don't want to normalize traditional, monogamous relationships.

    That said, I am a strict monogamist and I would want and expect the same out of any partner. I've often wondered what would happen if I did get involved with an asexual person, because I am allosexual. And I'm not terribly sure, which is why I'm kind of excited to see this topic. I know we have many ace people here and I'm really interested to read their thoughts on the matter and see if there's anything problematic in my perspective. It's hard to talk about, of course -- subject matter aside -- because every relationship and ace person is different and the terms of a relationship are unique to what the people involved agree upon. Still, there's a lot of value I think in sharing our thoughts and expectations and the like.

    I'm not entirely unopposed to the idea of dating an asexual person, but I do see it as a sort of... incompatibility, I guess. And incompatibilities can be overcome, depending on the people, where they all fall on the sexual spectrum (there are a lot of different kinds of asexual people), and so on. But sex and sexual desire is important to me, where it could be a make or break type deal in a relationship. It's like, I really like playing video games and I like sharing that with others. I could date a person who doesn't like or want to play video games with me just fine and we could get married and stay together forever because we like to do other things together. I could play video games alone while they do other stuff, or if we're so inclined, I could find other people to play video games with (if my partner is okay with it). So really I'm not sure. If I was into an asexual person, I would be willing to give the relationship a try. I don't think many asexual people would object to their allosexual partner masturbating, which can get you pretty far. Not being able to share my sexuality with that person is a gap I'd notice but one I think could, potentially, be dealt with.

    On the flip side, though, if I felt it was something I couldn't deal with and there was no way to work it out that both of us were happy with, then I would end the relationship. Which, I'm curious to turn the question around on asexual people -- if you were dating an allosexual person, what would you expect out of them? Would you think it wrong for either of you to end the relationship because of the sexual gap?
     
  5. T3F Chaser

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    Wow, this really took off! I'm glad so many people have a view on this haha. Okay, here we go.

    @Patman , @C , @Boy Wonder @Incognitus I do very much understand your point. A relationship without sex is a friendship...to you guys anyway (which seems to be the norm but anyway). My point being that if my partner reeeeaaaallllyyyyy wanted to have sex, it would depend on whether I was comfortable enough with them (which would take a while). If I said no and he got fed up, obviously that would be it. If I were comfortable to do that for him (because I loved him, as Princess said) then it would be okay. If I were finally comfortable with having sex with my SO, it wouldn't be a chore for me, so long as they knew how important of a step it was for me. I don't want them to sit there and go "YES WE'RE FINALLY HAVING SEX! THANK GOD!" That would bother me. I would be willing to compromise, so long as they knew that it's a big deal and it was out of love, not just because he wanted me to/pressured me to, or not just out of satisfaction. I think there's a difference between sex as a necessary part and sex as a big deal. Most allosexuals I know have sex all the time because it's a necessary part of their relationship, but it's not necessarily a big deal, they just do it whenever they want. But if I were to have sex with my parter, it would be a big deal because it doesn't happen often and I would need to be reeeeaaaaallllyyyyy comfortable with them. Also, I'm not opposed to my partner masturbating. It's a natural thing to do, by all means do it. It irks me a little, but if you need to do that, especially because we're not having sex, then by all means go for it.

    ...Am I making sense at all?



    I'm a university student. People talk about sex more often than anything else. People use the uni parties as a mating ritual. People have sex in the library, in the music rooms, in the science buildings, on the lawn. I am aware that there are plenty of aces around...but I'm just surrounded by so many sex-crazed people that I probably don't see them. But you may be right.

    Sex with someone else would be cheating, imo, but masturbation wouldn't be. I definitely wouldn't see masturbation as an insult either. I've heard people say you shouldn't masturbate in a relationship because you have someone to get you off and it's more or less embarrassing to get off by yourself when you have someone else. I could be completely wrong, though.

    I'm really glad you brought that up
    And herein lies our problem. I'm pretty sure that I, or any ace for that matter, would ever want to feel like they're being selfish for saying they didn't like/want sex. In most cases, it's the truth. There are some aces who do even enjoy sex (I'm not one of them. I'd probably be one of those who won't have sex until I am 100% absolutely comfortable with you, which would take a very long time). This is not all about the sexual respecting the asexual's needs, because it works the other way too. But this is what I said in the beginning of the post. They would need to at least understand that its a fairly big deal for me to agree to sex.

    Again, not sure if I made sense at all. The sexual wouldn't necessarily always need to compromise for the asexual, and I would be fine with them masturbating. And if they absolutely needed to have sex and I was 100% comfortable with them, I would do it. Because I love them. That's the key here. I don't want to be selfish in telling them they can never have sex, but they at least need to know that it freaks me out and I wouldn't do it for a very long time, if at all.

    Oh just on that...I don't really mind erotic fanfiction, but I love fanfiction love stories! I'm currently reading a Portal fanfiction where GLaDOS falls in love with Wheatley and it's just adorable and they have a little baby robot and just...awww. There's no sex in it, because they're robots. It's nice haha.
    ..sorry, I just got really off topic. Carry on!
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  6. Railos Hollow Bastion Committee

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    I just realized, if you're asexual, but willing to have sex with your SO, would that make you demisexual, or is that different?
     
  7. T3F Chaser

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    As I understand it, demisexual is when you have a sexual attraction after an emotional bond has been formed. Asexuals don't have a sexual attraction.

    If I were demisexual, I would only have a sexual attraction to my SO if we have a strong emotional bond.
    If I were asexual, I would not have a sexual attraction to my SO.
    But my willingness to have sex wouldn't have anything to do with it. To my understanding, you can still be willing to have sex even if you don't have a sexual attraction. It would be weird, but it can happen. It would be more because your partner wanted to, or something like that. It's quite confusing actually...but no, willingness to have sex does not necessarily make you demisexual (though that would be a LOT easier...)
    Correct me if I'm wrong, though!
     
  8. Patman Bof

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    Sure, I' m just not sure you get where we' re coming from. Saying that a relationship without sex is a friendship is a shortcut, it' s hard to explain. I understand that you don' t need to have sex to fall in love, but I don' t see that as the romantic side of things and sex as an unrelated purely physical activity. Sex is very much part of the romantic dynamic for me, the best part actually. An asexual would be unable to reciprocate that, you can' t fake it. Before "asexual" became a word asexual women were said to be "frigid", which semantically implies coldness, the polar opposite of hotness. It' s literally a turn off.

    I didn' t sleep left and right like a rabbit when I was a teenager, I needed feelings and confidence as well, but once I had both sex was the natural next step.

    I' m not sure how I could turn the tables on you to make you understand. Maybe you should ask yourself if you could marry an autist. As in someone who would genuinely love you but would barely reciprocate the signs of affection you send his way. At least not in the way you wish he would. You might be able to overlook it for a while but in the long run it would eat you up, you' d feel miserable.



     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  9. Magick ~Meaner then my demons~

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    You have no idea.

    I'm glad you've figured out where you stand. It can be just as scary to not know as to understand where you are. To be honest I'm stilling figuring some of this **** out.

    Regardless, relationship is about compromise. It wouldn't be fair to the other person if you expected them to be able to go without sex but remain faithful, without letting them know what they signed up for. And that might mean you have to compromise as well. I'm not saying have sex with them if you don't want to, but helping your partner orgasm can be fulfilling on its own without sex.

    And while I agree that sex is an important pArt of a relationship, it should be just that, a part. Just like working out together can be part of a couple's relationship, or kayaking together. Not every relationship will have that part, and that's okay.

    We're reaching an age where relationships can no longer be defined by simple standards, and they probably never should have been. You definitely have the ability and the right to a relationship if you should choose to want that. Hell you can even have kids without having sex if you want that too.

    Don't let other people define what your relationship with a person should be. If you two can find happiness and a status quo without sex, then tie that ****er down and marry them.
     
  10. ♥♦♣♠Luxord♥♦♣♠ Chaser

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    There is no "might" (in my opinion/experiences, anyways). One person changing exclusively isn't really compromise (once again, in my opinion). If someone is going to stubbornly cling to their ideals and expect the other person to just change how they act/feel with them not really getting any form of kick back from it, you will have a hard time finding a stable relationship with people who don't have the exact same ideals as you. That being said, there are exceptions.

    For example, if the person I loved said "no sex ever" I would probably be upset/butthurt/etc, however I wouldn't be upset enough to leave the person, because I feel that love is stronger than that. That being said, it is generally advised to try and make each other happy, and if sex happens to make the person you love happy (and there aren't any reasons that sex would hurt you severely in some way) there is no excuse to not do that person a favor every now and again. Some people may find this to be a bit cut and dry, however to me it is really that simple. I scratch your back, you scratch mine. However, the relationship doesn't sink or swim based on how often/if favors even happen. Those said favors just make things easier.


    I mean if we are talking about a SERIOUS relationship here, you shouldn't really need to hear this, because chances are you would have already gotten to that stage with your significant other. Ironing things out, and figuring out what to do is super important. That being said, making all of what I said above EXCLUSIVELY for someone you love/would marry/whatever category they fall under in your head, is perfectly fine. I wouldn't have sex with someone I didn't love, not because I am appalled by sex, it is more so that I think having sex with someone that you love makes more sense to me. It makes it special.
     
  11. Laurence_Fox Chaser

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    And this is how you feel. Sex is important to you. Us on the asexual spectrum don't always value it for whatever reason. I have a very...well negative view on it. It's messy. Your core temperature rises. Your muscles tense up. Your blood pressure increases. And you're joined physically to another person for x amount of time. It doesn't sound very appealing to me.

    And as stated before, plenty of Aces have healthy sex lives. They masturbate. They have sex and enjoy it. It's not necessarily an aversion to sex just a lack of sexual attraction to a person.

    There's an asexual spectrum.

    I'm also not touching your comment about how before asexuality was coined ace women were frigid. That's just... no.


    Are you comparing asexuality to autism? Because I could go into detail just how very wrong that is but I don't want to be rude. I understand you were trying to make a point by providing a hypothetical situation but I think you went the wrong direction with the implications.
     
  12. Patman Bof

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    I think I talked at the first person enough to avoid throwing that kind of caveat thrice a sentence. We' re all talking about ourselves here.

    Most men have turn ons and turn offs. Knowing you' re not into it at all would be a turn off for me is all I was saying, and I' m not exactly the only man who thinks (or rather reacts) like that. It doesn' t mean you can' t be a nice friend to have around, but it does mean our sex life would be boring from day one. So no, I wouldn' t even try getting in such a relationship.

    Now if we' re talking about someone who doesn' t mind getting sex anyway and is somehow decently skilled at it in spite of her lack of attraction ... sure, I guess I could at least try. But I' m very dubious about that.

    The metaphor obviously has its limits, I hoped the vids under it would make my point clearer. It' s those scenes that brought the metaphor to my mind in the first place. It' s not just the parts about autism mind you, I thought the candy exchange was also quite symbolic. Also, alternate Astrid breaks my heart. I can see why it was hard for her father, but I also do feel empathy for her situation.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015
  13. Karuta Reborn

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    This has always been a weird topic for me. I think mainly because I don't understand the importance of assigning complex sexuality-labels to oneself.
    Personally, sexual intercourse with people isn't something I'm particularly interested in. I'm not opposed to it at all, but I wouldn't be the person to instigate it in a relationship. In terms of attraction, I can pretty easily become sexually attracted to females and males, but I'll usually deal with this attraction through masturbation. For this reason I would apply the label Bisexual to myself. To be honest, I don't understand the need for sexuality-labels outside of Asexual, Heterosexual, Bisexual and Homosexual (no offense meant whatsoever to people that identify outside of these labels).

    Am I Asexual because sexual intercourse isn't something I long for?
    Am I Bisexual because I can experience sexual attraction to both females and males?
    I would go with the latter. It makes more sense to me to base the label on what I can experience attraction to rather than how interested I am in sexual intercourse.

    Regarding the question of whether or not I would date an Asexual person, the answer is yes, but it wouldn't last long because ultimately I want to have biological children. If the Asexual person in question was willing to engage in sexual intercourse once or twice solely for the purpose of having children, then sure, that would work fine, but I imagine that wouldn't be the case, and I wouldn't want to put anyone in a situation where they make themselves uncomfortable for my sake. My wanting of biological children also means that a relationship with a male also wouldn't be something that would last long in my case. Does this mean that the term "Heteroromantic" applies to me? Possibly.
     
  14. T3F Chaser

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    See I understand that. I don't want biological children simply because I don't want to get pregnant, let alone have sex. If I ever want children, I would adopt. But this would be another thing to talk to my partner about. I know biological children is desirable for a lot of people, but seeing as I don't even want to get pregnant I'm not sure if I'd be willing to make that compromise.
     
  15. Laurence_Fox Chaser

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    The problem with the metaphor is that there are autistic asexuals out there who get the 'Oh you're autistic that must be why you're asexual!' attitude which leads people to think that there's a causation. It's kind of problematic. Just like the insunation that there must be something 'wrong' with a person for them to be asexual. Not saying there's anything wrong with being autistic. But before I figured out I was Ace, I considered myself 'broken' which is a common attitude to have.

    Also, I am rather hesitant to uhm...take those videos you linked to as credible. JJ Abrams aside, the media's portrayal of anything shouldn't really be taken at face value. Like, I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert on law enforcement because I watch Law & Order. SVU is especially problematic. There are things they do right and then there are things they do horribly wrong. There is no substitute for good old fashioned research and conversing with people who are Ace. And part of learning about anything is to keep an open mind.
     
  16. Patman Bof

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    I suspected you got the "broken" thing thrown at you a lot. But as Astrid pointed out in the second vid you don' t have to be "broken" to be rigid about your communication standards and your expectations. The irony wasn' t lost on me. It was my point to begin with, we all have our own. You don' t have to be autistic or asexual to have a hard time explaining them.

    Just so you know, someone in my family is autistic, you might be happy to hear he has a girlfriend. Also, the actress who plays Astrid has an autistic sister. Thoses scenes didn' t strike me as unrealistic. Well, parallel dimension people aside.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  17. Shadox D. Twilight Town Denizen

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    On the topic of cheating:

    In my opinion, like many others, fooling around with anyone else but your partner is straight up cheating. When I was with my ex-girlfriend, I had the problem of her romantically talking to another girl behind my back like if they were together. It wasn’t only once, either. I am extremely monogamous, so that didn’t fly by real well and I had trouble trusting her after that. Just make sure that boundaries must be 100% respected.

    On the topic of sex in the relationship:

    Being with only a girl at that time in my life, I didn’t care too much about sex (being a girl myself) because I hadn’t experienced it yet. Truthfully, I was quite a bit hesitant. We hadn’t done much besides fool around, but I did love knowing that she enjoyed what I did to her with my minimal skills, and in addition I respected her boundaries. In this relationship, sex only seemed secondary to the personal relationship between me and her. True, I did feel it somewhat important, though.

    Now I have a boyfriend, and with practice I have grown very attached to sex in the relationship. I feel that it has made my feelings for him even stronger. I do not feel like I would ever want to separate from him, but if I did I would consider sex as a need. I feel like it gives the relationship more depth.


    “If you were in a relationship with someone who was asexual, or just had very little sexual desire, would you be able to stay faithful? Consider everything else they are willing to do for you. If they loved you to bits, would you stay faithful, knowing that sex is pretty much off the table?”

    I do not believe I would pursue a relationship with someone who was not interested in sexual matters. Without sex, I feel that there is some sort of disconnection. I consider myself as a high libido person also, and that is an itch I need to scratch. I wouldn’t have anything against being friends though.

    ------------------------

    Amethyst, it makes me happy to hear that you are not against masturbation. I have heard stories of sexually active couples getting mad at each other for masturbating, and all I can think is ‘WTF? It’s their own body. It’s not like they are fooling around with anyone else.’ In my current relationship with my bf, we highly encourage each other to do it, so hearing stories like that make my brain get confused. Lol.

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    “I don't want biological children simply because I don't want to get pregnant, let alone have sex. If I ever want children, I would adopt. But this would be another thing to talk to my partner about. I know biological children is desirable for a lot of people, but seeing as I don't even want to get pregnant I'm not sure if I'd be willing to make that compromise.”

    It makes me SO happy to know that there are also other women out there in the world that do not ever want children. Every time I tell someone that I do not want children they seem to get offended and say stuff like “You’ll change your mind when you get older”, “But you would make such a great mother”, the whole deal. In fact, I even want to get fixed so I can never have the worry about accidentally having a bun in the oven. My bf knows and respects this decision of mine, and even agrees with it as he has said he doesn’t want them either. It’s nice being compatible like that. Plus there are already too many people in the world, and there are plenty of orphans to adopt if I ever decide on getting a kid.
     
  18. Ars Nova Just a ghost.

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    I don't think I could be with an asexual person. Not for long, anyway. Sex is to me an integral part of the progression of a relationship, so I would always feel as though we weren't very close. It's not even that I want to enjoy it, it's that I'd want us to enjoy it together. I dunno, I'm not well-versed in the ace spectrum, maybe I could date someone at the near end for a long time.

    I respect those who don't derive pleasure from it, or don't consider it valuable, or just don't pursue it. It's like I say, feelings don't ask permission—you can't dictate to your own flesh what it likes and dislikes. Unfortunately that applies to me as well, and well, I know what I like. I say 'unfortunately' because I've met many an ace person that I'd love to be romantically involved with, but I know in the back of my head that our relationship would inevitably become too strained to sustain. Then again, maybe that's a shitty reason not to try, and I'm just being a bigot.

    As far as children, my girlfriend planted the adoption idea in my head and it's stuck like glue. Sometimes I wonder if I'd feel unfulfilled not to have any biological children, but then again I'm a step-child so that's hypocritical of me. But if push came to shove, I think I'd choose to be with someone and adopt over breaking up with them to save the potential of loins-borne fruit.
     
  19. Makaze Some kind of mercenary

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    Loving someone romantically and lusting after them become synonymous; whichever comes first, the other will follow. I've started from feelings and grown to lust, and started from lust and grown to love. It is impossible for me to keep them completely separate. I've been with people who are not interested but I prefer someone with appetites similar to mine. It's important that we want to be intimate in the same ways, or intimacy will become an issue.

    I feel no obligation to have children, but feel an obligation to take care of children I come in contact with. I may adopt someday, if money allows.