Double Standards, and the Importance of Looks in a Relationship

Discussion in 'Debate Corner' started by KatDoesThings, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. KatDoesThings Chaser

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    Double standards, particularly with looks, is an issue that angers a lot of people. If a woman is rejected by a man because of her looks, the man is labelled as a misogynistic pig for not respecting the way she looks, and “sexually objectifying” women into his own preference. If the tables were turned, however, the man would be told to “harden the f*ck up” because “the woman is allowed to be attracted to whatever she wants”.

    I suggest here, as shallow as it sounds, that everyone is entitled to have a “type”. Everyone has the right to be attracted to whatever they’re attracted to without fear of being labelled “sexist”.

    A man should not be forced into a romantic or sexual relationship with a woman he does not find physically attractive because society will label him as a “misogynist pig” otherwise.

    A man should be entitled to go after a girl he finds physically attractive, and reject a girl he doesn’t, AND be rejected by a girl who doesn’t find him attractive.

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    This works the other way, too. A woman has the right to go after a man she finds physically attractive, and reject someone she doesn’t find attractive, AND be rejected by a man who doesn’t find her attractive.
    Why? Because physical attraction has some importance in a relationship, or at least in choosing a potential partner. This still applies to people who say that they value someone’s personality over their looks, and I agree with you all. But if you had to choose between two guys who were equally incredibly nice, you would still go for the more physically attractive one, would you not?

    The truth is-everyone is beautiful, objectively. What I mean by this is, disregarding subjective opinions, society and the media are slowly (VERY, very slowly) accepting all body types across all genders as beautiful, thus changing and defining the “expected” objective standards of beauty. We have seen a rise in women who are proud of their weight, and we have begun acknowledging that fat-shaming AND skinny-shaming is wrong. I believe there is still a long way to go in accepting all body types for males, as the standard in magazines is still "roided-up", but we are making progress.

    However, subjectively we aren't all beautiful. SUBJECTIVELY our looks are rated and ranked in other people’s individual minds. Some guys would not find me as attractive as a small Asian girl with big boobs, for example. Other guys may find me more attractive than that. That doesn’t make the latter guy a better person than the former one, they just have different types.

    TL;DR (Main points):
    Everyone is entitled to have their own “type”
    Being more attracted to one person than another does not make you a terrible person
    Looks have some importance in choosing a potential partner, even if personality comes first.

    SO: Do you agree with the above main points? Why/Why not?
     
  2. Fork These violent delights have violent ends

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    Well first off, I just want to point out that the very first impression you get from meeting someone (in person) is their physical appearance. Your attraction to said person might change depending on their personality (which is why personality is more important in the long run for obvious reasons). But yeah, of course physical attraction matters to a certain, biased degree, but it shouldn't drive who we like or dislike. Human beings are just intelligent animals in the end, with basic instincts, so of course we would want to seek out someone who's physically appealing to our eyes, and you shouldn't be judged for that.

    That said, the problem lies when some people have stupid standards when it comes to physical appearances (height, weight, etc.) and don't see beyond that, and objectify men and women based solely on their physical appearance. Some people are very shallow when it comes to that.
    So yeah, we all have types and preferences, but you gotta be flexible, ya know? Physical attraction is nice, but there's more to a person than that.

    (I agree with your main points, but I just wanted to also develop my ideas)
     
  3. Makaze Some kind of mercenary

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    • Everyone is entitled to have their own “type”. To an extent. Some people filter out others based on arbitrary criteria for the sake of external factors. Imagine someone filtering out same sex partners or partners of a significantly lower economic class. These are not 'types'. These kinds of social constraints are toxic and should not be endorsed by anyone.
    • Being more attracted to one person than another does not make you a terrible person. Correct. Promoting a division of people into an elite class of attractive people who are worthy of respect and a plebeian class of unattractive people who are not through your behavior, however, does. The world is made of more than opinions. It's also made of statistics. There are statistically common opinions for what is attractive and what is not. If people choose to, they can work to ostracize the statistically unattractive, which we see happening today. Imagine someone only hanging out with attractive people and using that fact to segregate a mixed group.
    • Looks have some importance in choosing a potential partner, even if personality comes first. Not inherently. Personality does not always come first. Some people are only interested in sex (aromatic). Conversely, looks sometimes do not matter at all (asexuality). Based on my own experience and intuition, looks have a stronger effect in the social sphere than the private sphere while personality has a stronger effect in the private sphere than the social sphere. We take the things we see every day for granted, but personality runs deeper. It takes the foreground when it comes out of the woodwork, you might say.
     
  4. -Xero- Destiny Islands Resident

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    You have no idea how much I agree with this. I've been called shallow so many times because I've turned down people I didn't find attractive and for other reasons. It makes me so mad when people do this. I should be able to like how the person I'm dating looks and I should be able to reject people I don't find attractive/not attracted to. And it should work the same way for the other person!​
     
  5. Railos Hollow Bastion Committee

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    I agree to most of this. People naturally consider looks when they look for a relationship, and while personality is also important, looks usually count for first impressions, since it's the first thing people see. In a biological level, it's a natural thing to do this because looks are connected to health, and good genes. For example, a healthy face would normally look more attractive and have better genes, so people would want that more.
     
  6. Styx That's me inside your head.

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    "Come for the appearance, stay for the personality."
    That's the rule many of us follow and I have yet to see someone who defies it without fooling themselves, gold diggers notwithstanding. Rather than making a fuss about it, I think we should all just abide to the fact that ugly people (m/f) are playing the dating game on Hard Mode. Whoever I strike up a conversation with gets a fair chance, but don't be offended when I approach your hotter friends first. I've played the second fiddle more often than I can count, and I've learned to elegantly retreat and shrug it off when that happens.

    EDIT: Just realized the bump. Oops.
     
  7. Menos Grande Kingdom Keeper

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    People have the individual right to love/reject any "type" even if they are being *******s about it. The problem is that as a media/social relations go it is better to be polite. Even if you are not actively shaming a group by giving emphasis on only one "Type" you are demeriting the others , thats how the media that elected impossible standards of fitness makes anorexia an "alternative for people become standard".
    There should not be any perceived awkwardness to any type by because they change our perception of what is right/wrong and exclude the possibility of happiness and acceptance. You can't project your expectations to the whole society because diversity is good, even "superior traits" like being more inteligent and fit can become bad if they are the norm and the rest are ostracized.
    There are three points about it:
    1) The "pitiful opressor status", when a men says things like "hey why do you bother about those women (...) when men suffer the same thing and we don't ***** about it". Sure all evils in the world (or most) are capable of happening to every human being, instead of taking the merit of another fight, you would probably find more rewarding to joining the fight, or make your own fuss about your angle "Women are rapped and killed everyday" , you could help by saying "let's stop the rape/rapist" and not say "Shut up and take it , like we do" (we can put other things like joining the army etc...).

    2)The society is assymetrical , and as men we get more advantages , although in some cases we can have it "worse" like having less freedom to express through clothing, and having difficulty to express feelings because we are raised not have them, so gender role is bad to everyone, but most feminist fight by the women perspective, because they statisticaly suffer more of it. So more women die because of violence of man X woman than woman X man, are more rapped, and suffer more to be accepted as beautiful (Hair/make up/ surgeries/ diets/more shaving/etc..), not saying that becoming THE ROCK is easy, but the pressure is lower than for women to be Shakira.

    3) Even though we should accept everybody, and have the same demographics of "real life" in entertainment, we should be aware of the "reverse incentive", Yes people are free to be fat (I am), Yes some fat people are healthier than slim people, but a fat person isn't "healthy" , there are a number of diesieses corrlelated to obesity including cancer, so fat people should appear on the media much like people that smoke, because they exist not because people should thrive to be them.



    And finally as you are free to reject people because of their looks, they are also free to dismiss you because of your narcissist judgement, so be aware of that when you ask about it. You can think anything about anyone, but this is a two way street so being polite to others is a good policy.
     
  8. Splodge Twilight Town Denizen

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    I think that looks play a more important in a relationship than what people give credit for. The problem, of course, being that it's highly frowned upon in society.

    Physical attraction all comes down to a biological level. Generally, people are not attracted to "fat" people, as they are seen as "unhealthy", and thus have worse genes then a "thin" person. I use inverted commas, as this is not true 100% of the time, yet is a general rule of thumb. Fat people, generally, are not going to be as healthy as a "thin" person. The same applies to height, generally. Being tall is a good thing, from a survival aspect. You're able to reach higher trees, seem more opposing and generally stronger, which are all desirable traits. Physical attraction is also tied into what people perceive to be "normal". No matter what people say, people are programmed to dislike the concept of change. Change is scary, because you don't know what is going to happen. Generally, people don't like ginger hair, as it is perceived as "abnormal", and you don't know if it's "safe" or not. So your brain, in order to protect yourself and the future generation, makes you perceive it as "unattractive". Furthermore, it is also influenced from a social angle. If the "dominant male" of the group is going out with a blonde haired woman, despite the fact blonde is just as common as brown and black hair(If not less common than black hair), it is seen as more preferable. One desires to be like the "dominant" member of society, and so people, generally, find them more attractive. This is arguably the most influential factor, as many many models are incredibly skinny, and on top of that, are edited to appear to be even more skinny. Being that skinny is just as unhealthy as being overweight, yet because of the social implications, it is seen as "attractive".

    This of course, is also tied to personality and character traits. Generally, people find more intelligent people to be attractive, because then they will pass on those genes, and create a more intelligent, and generally more successful child. In more Asian cultures, a small, meek and quiet girl is seen to be very attractive, yet in more Western cultures, a more outgoing and luxurious girl is seen as more attractive. This again, all ties into what is perceived to be "normal" and/or what the "dominant" members of society find more attractive.

    People don't seem to mind as much the stereotypical views on personality and character traits however. I think that this comes down to the fact that it easier to "hide" your personality from other people. It's easier to pretend you're more social than you actually are than to squeeze the life out of your waist with special clothing. Looks are also more important to a first encounter, although not the most important aspect (that title goes to smell), than one's personality is. As a result, creating a fake personality could make you seem more attractive.

    At heart, people are selfish creatures, and that's not a bad thing. They want what's best for them, and that's natural. If they want to reject a person on the grounds they aren't attractive, or whatever else they may think, then by all means allow them to do that. They should be allowed, and you should be allowed to do that to. Looks are important to a relationship too, so let them be. People always harp on about "equality" or whatever, but don't get it right on the most basic level. Let people be attracted to whoever the **** they want, it makes perfect sense in my mind.

    Tl;DR : Physical appearance is important to a relationship and is affected by all sorts of factors, as is personality. People have preferences, let then have them.
     
  9. Xiosoranox Moogle Assistant

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    This. This is important. It's not even just the double standards that bother me, it's the fact that when someone's like "I'm just not attracted to x" people go apeshit. "That's so shallow!" "Personality matters too!" Yes, of course personality matters - it can make a Tom Hiddleston turn into a Kanye West real quick, so to speak - but you have to look at people first. If you focus on only looks, then yeah that's a problem. But don't act like looks have absolutely NO bearing in your initial decision, that's just a flat denial of human nature to me. That being said, double standards are ****ed up but such is life.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2015