Controversy Over New York School Doing the Pledge of Allegiance in Arabic

I understand why the school did it, and why the parents are upset too, but it's really the people hating over this that are in the wrong. First off, just because it was read in Arabic does not mean someone is a terrorist, which really doesn't make sense in itself. Does that mean if i were to learn Arabic I would suddenly be a terrorist? Me no think so. Grow a brain numbskulls. It didn't hurt anyone, not too mention, what are the people who lost people in Afghanistan freaking out about? Maybe if they lost someone in Iran or Iraq I'd understand, but even than, it's not like it's hurting you. It certainly shows how shallow a lot of people are. Kinda funny how the kids understand the point of the week more than the adults

 

There' s no pledge in France, but I' ve heard similar stories. Our right wing is extra suspicious of Islam. For good reasons, I gotta give them that, but I can also see why their approach to secularism would make Muslims feel stigmatized. I was a bit on the fence about the veil thing, but their latest proposal to get rid of substitution meals in school cafeterias is outright shameful. Aside from sticking it to the Muslims I' m not sure what that would accomplish exactly.

Our right wing has been stuck on that notion of "national identity" for years now, trying to think of what makes a French truly French. Way to waste your time there, Mr Scotsman. If I was to say publicly, in a moment of anger, that France is a shitty country no one would give a flying **** about it. See, I' ve checked all the boxes those guys actually care about. But when Zlatan Ibrahimovich says it aw naw you really did it !!!

The pledge, in and of itself, stems from the same effort to artificially inject a national identity. Problem is true respect is earned, it' s not a given. I find it curious they chose the pledge of all things to promote foreign language week, but then maybe the irony wasn' t entirely lost on the teachers.

 

The level of racism and Islamophobia in America is absurd; I'm not surprised by this news, but still definitely upset. We're pretty xenophobic in general, as a country, and that's of course exasperated by the skewed view we have of Islam and, by extension, Middle Eastern and Arabic culture. I do feel somewhat obligated to explain that, despite New York being a liberal state, many of the areas upstate are straight out of the south -- but the burden of responsibility still falls on all of American to correct our prejudices.

As someone who is pursuing a career in education, I'm similarly mystified that we still say the Pledge of Allegiance in classrooms. The contents of it completely notwithstanding, it's a terrifying example of nationalism that we're force-feeding our children every day. I stopped saying it in elementary school but still, without fail, every morning we were expected to at least stand for it, and not saying it was frowned upon. And then onto the contents, well, so much for keeping church and state separate ("one nation under God"), and it's incredibly ironic here that we're saying "liberty and justice for all" then persecuting an entire group of people.

I support rewriting the Pledge and removing it from schools, but obviously that doesn't strike at the heart of the issue here.

 

The pledge of allegiance in the U.S. is a touchy subject. Whether it's religion: (I think it's Jahova's Witnesses that can't make an oath to someone other than God. The court finally allowed them to not say it due to religious beliefs.) Nationalism... A ton of things.

I recently watched a video where a ex-cop talked about the Lucifer effect and a Stanford study. (The one where a guy selected several students to run a simulated prison, being randomly selected as guards/prisoners. It was supposed to last two weeks, at the most it lasted five days.) But he talked about how the U.S. seems to always need an enemy, someone to fight against during war times. During WWII, Germany and Japan, cold war: Russia and communism, 1990 to present: Middle East and terrorism. And people either grow up in that mindset that these people are "evil" or they watch the news and the propaganda and make wrong conclusions about a few people while the rest might be okay. It's sadly something that is happening right now in the U.S. with Arab countries, is it wrong? Yes, will it change? Most likely not.

But it's sad it does happen.

 

Ever wondered why, when the US chose a governance system for Germany and Japan, they didn' t pick the US model ?
If you' re tired of useless wars just put the draft back. Make it mandatory, zero exceptions, not even women. Forcing all those death merchants and their uninformed base to send their own flesh and blood is the only thing that could make them think twice about it next time.

Which yeah, doesn' t sound very likely.

I understand why both our countries played the cultural tribalism card three centuries ago. We were two budding secular democracies in a see of theocratic monarchies. The rest of the world was watching us like hawks, half expecting/wishing we would crumble under our own weight. We were betting big, so I understand why your founders resorted to indoctrination as a survival insurance.

But now tribalism is just a rhetorical tool used to sucker people into voting against their own interests. We didn' t hear a peep when you sent us Coke and Mc Donalds, we won' t hear a peep when you send us Avengers 2, but somehow halal meat is a fundamental threat to camembert. Go figure ... The French are already fairly united on the need for secular values, and not just because they' ve been told in school that they should. Secularism is pretty much non-negotiable here and I don' t expect that to change anytime soon, halal or not, ISIS or not.

 

You should watch Michael Moore sometime, you'd probably like him. He's a controversial documentarian in the U.S. who after 9/11 asked random senators to sign a draft for the kids to join the army. All of them practically fled as soon as they same him.

I technically can't join the military due to several reasons. (One is my flat feet and terror of loud noises.) But I actually am strongly against wars as are a lot of people in the U.S. I think the only war I have supported since I was born was maybe right after 9/11. There are people for wars, sadly... The country has reached the point in my view where the people will just mostly vote for what party they're in. (Granted, it's changing a bit, but it's become a bit extremist. If you really want fun, google the Tea Party. And yes, I'm sure there's left-wing extremists around, too... But the Tea Party is something else in my opinion. But I digress.)

It's a part of the U.S. as much as everything else has become. Fun fact: The U.S. stayed in isolation for most of it's life until 1917, then went back into it until 1941 when Pearl Harbor happened. Now we seem the complete opposite.

 

Well that's just it, they are merely empty words. I can't for the life of me think of a single person that took the pledge seriously in any way whatsoever. I'm not just talking about when I was in high school/middle school (where nobody cares about anything), it was just a "say these words just because" type thing, which in reality makes it meaningless. I'm not saying kids should say the pledge in school, but saying something without putting a single shred of thought/care into it is for the most part the same as not saying it at all.

The only time I've EVER seen someone even acknowledge that it was important was in 7th grade when a girl in my homeroom class refused to do it (she was a Jehovah's witness), and people were like "wtf is she doing". But it stopped there, after the first time, nobody cared. I suppose this is just another reason to eliminate it all together because if nobody actually cares, then why do it at all. It keeps people from feeling awkward, and it will just be another eliminated ritual.


In fact more about pride in one's country, I can't really think of anyone in my age group that actually gives a crap about anything involving the country unless they have something to whine about, or there is some hot trend (unfortunately that is more or less pointing towards terrorist attacks, which once they are done and over with, the people who weren't directly involved stop caring if they ever did in the first place). That thought in of itself is a sad one to behold.

 

I was against it. Against France agreeing to join I mean, your plan just sucked. We tried to friendly warn you but ... look where that got us.

You had the luxury of being an ocean apart, we kinda Napoleoned our old school neighbors. Woops.

Besides your enlightenment took a much less anti-clerical turn than ours. In the US secularism has mostly protected the church from the state rather than the other way around. We' ve had to kick out 6000 catholic priests by force first, they just wouldn' t let go of their power. Three centuries later France is 40% atheistic, 45% non-religious. And more importantly, we have a negligible amount of fundies. Our right wing never resorts to religious arguments unless the topic itself is religion, even our far right, they' d lose any credibility on the spot.

In the US that' d be 5% atheists, 20% non-religious, so it' s no wonder your church tries to rape your state every Tuesday. Your Tea Party and creationists are baffling to the vast majority of Frenchmen, and that' s the sugar-coated way to put it. I'm pretty sure it' s not just us, I' ve seen your politicians laughed out loud on British TV.

 

I grew up in an extremist household. Hell, I still have an extremist family. (Thankfully my mom isn't. Or I'd probably not make it in my household.) My aunt and dad both are extremist, right wing, Tea Party, ex-cultists who go to "Super Mall Churches" (yes, there are ones.) And blame everything including the worst drought in five hundred years on Obama. (I **** you not.) Who believe if you're not a Christian no matter what you do in life you're going straight to hell. They believe if you ASSOCIATE with someone who isn't Christian you're going to hell. My grandmother's caretaker is a Catholic who's a huge churchgoer and my aunt tried to get her fired because she was a Catholic.

Oh yeah, and my dad doesn't believe in trimming anything, at all... Period. Because it's "Gods creatures". Including a rosebush wrapped so tightly around the wires going inside our house three times a day I'm going and restarting my Internet because it's screwing up with our reception, thankfully not our power, yet.

I can see why a lot of people look inside from outside of our country and wonder what the **** is going on with it. I wonder the same thing a lot of the time myself. Especially with my own family, but it's different countries. I would like to see it change, but I strongly doubt it will happen soon. Not with as much power as the church has in the U.S. and the beliefs of a lot of people who help these people get to power.

 

It' s all the more perplexing when you actually meet one. If memory serves Mixt is both. He has never bothered detailing any of his political views, he assumed nothing good would come out of it. But clearly, if you put politics and religion aside, he seems neither daft nor uneducated.

While it is sad to know what they think of people like me I can' t help being sad for them too. All the more easier for me when I don' t have to endure their disdain directly. These people have been lied to. A lot. They' re probably in a much darker place than I am. It' s infuriating for me to see people torture themselves over this.

 

I grew up with it and my mom always wondered why I can't stand a being inside a church. Even now I don't tolerate being in one. I spent one class (note: It was a college class for my degree.) Where a guy spent three and a half hours lecturing us on how evil you were and how God would punish you if you didn't do exactly what the bible told you. It was the only class I nearly walked out on, and there were several terrible classes I've endured while in school. It took me two hours to calm down afterwards and I dropped it the next day due to how I felt after being in it.

It's very hard to live in an environment like that unless you are like it yourself. My dad ruined my family's life because of what happened with the church. He poured our life savings in it and never looked back afterwards. If he was given any money from us, it'd end up with the church. I never really got over it myself and hold a special resentment towards religion because of it. I grew up not liking church because I viewed it as dull and my dad quoted the bible every five minutes when I was with him. But after I grew up I really got a deeper resentment when he started going again. (My mom banned him after they married due to him leaving the cult.)

I know a lot of people are good who go to church, as a lot of people who are athiests and/or anti-religion are good. My godmother is a straight-laced Catholic and I've never met someone so liberal and open-minded along with kind. But for me it's left a sour taste in my mouth that I can never get rid of. They might be lied to and have their own issues, but it still wears you down, it still gets to you every single time you see them make an excuse or say something about their beliefs that you know is bullshit. It is torture, but for me it's torture for the people who have to deal with them every day who don't have the same beliefs also.

That's just my two cents...

 

Well, there' s a reason I don' t think I' ll ever move to the US. Not the kind to hide who I am.

I think the problem doesn' t just stem from religion itself, it' s a combo with your medias. I' m sure most of your journalists find this stuff just as preposterous as Europeans, the difference is they' ll keep a straight face and pretend there' s something worthy of being listened there. Even Santorum himself has a hard time keeping a straight face when he talks to his base, how that woman didn' t notice is beyond me :

A teacher, ladies and gentlemen. She is a teacher.