Can an all-powerful god change his own laws?

Discussion in 'Debate Corner' started by Boy Wonder, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Boy Wonder Dark Phoenix in Training

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    A conversation that a professor and I had made me wonder this.
    This is not a debate on whether or not God (or any god) exists and evidence towards/against him. It's more of a question on what exactly "all-powerful" entails.
    Let's say that an all-powerful being created the universe, the entire universe and everything that it has become. This being created ideas as well, such as morality.
    Along with all this, said being created laws. Not regulations, but laws of physics and the universe.
    This being is infallible and perfect in every way. However, because he/she/it made the laws, he/she/it is now constrained by his/her/its own creation. A triangle always has three sides and the god cannot change that, despite having created the law/idea that a triangle always has three sides. Does this mean the god is no longer all-powerful?

    For that matter, can this god work through and around paradoxes? Will paradoxes stop it? "Can an all-powerful god make a boulder so heavy that even he can't lift it?"



     
  2. Patman Bof

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    I suppose you already looked there, but just in case :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence

    As you can see neither religions nor philosophers reached a consensus. Which is understandable, it's not like we actually found an omnipotent being to experiment on. All we can do is throw hypothesis around, if we can't test any of them then we can' t settle on any answer, it would be an argument from ignorance
     
  3. Nate_River Hollow Bastion Committee

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    Being that the example used is "Triangles ALWAYS have three sides" and not "Triangles ALWAYS have three sides, unless otherwise specified by God", yes, the God is no longer all-powerful.
     
  4. Arch Mana Knight

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    I will be the first to give you a definite answer.

    Maybe.

    Logic does not have to apply to a metaphysical being. This is the same reason why you can't prove or disprove the existence of a god. Science and logic do not work with the concept of the metaphysical. So it's entirely possible that rules can be made(laws of physics) only to be broken by such a being while still preserving those rules. It doesn't make sense, but that's because it doesn't have to.

    On the other hand, that doesn't mean logic can't work. It just means that you can't assume it will.
     
  5. Peace and War Bianca, you minx!

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    The limitation of the argument's situation is the the state and constrictions an all-powerful god would deal with.

    In the essence of the idea, then yes they are still all powerful and able to control the laws they put in place unless said rules applied to them or affect the god being in anyway.

    I think the worst part to put into the equation here to get a definitive answer, is by saying 'God is perfect'. It presupposes the idea of perfection on a being we know nothin about or tangibly comprehend, more so then specified by the person asking the question.

    As such, basically, we have no idea. We can just guess.
     
  6. aiight Traverse Town Homebody

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    if you say this is an 'all-powerful' god then if it couldnt break its own rules and create new ones it isnt all-powerful.
     
  7. Finn the Human Traverse Town Homebody

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    Haven't read the other posts yet, but if a being is all-powerful, then wouldn't it negate the existence of law, since it could not be enforced?

    I mean, if it created its own law, and put other beings under said universal law, then wouldn't it be a guardian as such? If a being of the above mentioned were to be able to have the power to create a world, and be under one law, then I somehow doubt it could trap itself in its own universe. If so, then the being could hardly be called all-powerful.
     
  8. Jiηx You're such a loser.

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    I'm just here for the paradoxes.

    Paradoxes are impossibility's, a set of conditions that can't actually exist.

    If we're going on the train of thought that an all powerful god does it exist, there would be no such thing as an unliftable object to him, it's the same as the old immovable object meets an unstoppable force argument.

    Both those things can't exist in the same realm of reality, because an immovable object would stop any amount of force, and an unstoppable force would go through anything in it's way, they negate each other and thus cease to exist.

    If god is truly an all powerful creature that's power has absolutely no limits, no matter the object he creates he should be able to lift it, to create one he cannot life would in reality discredit his own power.
     
  9. VenitasX Merlin's Housekeeper

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    But I think that is just the splendor of being all powerful and all knowing. If one is all powerful, then there are probably some things or ways that God can get around or change or function that we don't even know it happened or have any essence of its existence. I think there are just things that humans cannot comprehend ya know what I mean? And when I say essence for example, you can tell a newborn baby to pour out the sour milk. (supposing it will understand and talk and have the motor skill to do so) The baby wont have the smallest inkling of what to do, because a newborn knows nothing of any subject. Or a better way to put it. A great pink man once said "Did you try setting it to, Wambo" No one ever thought of that or had the smallest idea to do so or to flip the belt around.