Book Club Session #1 - Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows

My thoughts on this book are so mixed and there are a great deal of emotions that go with them. Firstly, I'll preface this with the fact that I started reading the Harry Potter books when I was 4 or 5, so close to when they came out, and just before they went megapopular. I basically grew up with the books. I went through teenage angst with them, and all that good stuff ... so with that admin out of the way ...

I really liked this book. I feel that she really gave a rounded, balanced conclusion and it wasn't all hapilly ever after and sugar and rainbows. There was some major character death, and most of it was very heart renching. All of the set-up in Snape's character finally came unwound and we funally found out his motivations, and I really liked the duality of his character, both wanting to protect harry as Lily's son, and hating him for being so much like his father. I really ended u[ hating Dumbledore at the end of this book, he seemed so wrapped up in doing things for the greater good that he couldn't even see Harry as a real person, just a tool to die at the right time. My favorite line is one of his though: "Of course this is all in your head, but why on earth should that mean that it doesn't have to be real"? It's so true of real life as well, not everything real is tangible. Of course the epilogue was cheesy, but I think it needed to be that way. We needed to see that after defeating Voldemort, Harry just became an average joe type of guy, not a god or a head of state or anything, and it really humanised him after his massive messiah-like appearance at the end of the book. Also Molly Weasly <3 "No my daughter you bitch is just such a great line, and it was powerful seeing as it's the only time JK Rowling put an actually swear in her books. So much to say, but I'm so scattebrained right now ...

If I had one criticism, I would say that the camping trip went on too long and became rather tedious and boring to read through. However, I'm pretty sure that this was a concisous decision from Rowling, as it gave the reader empathy with the monotony and boredome that the trio were feeling at that time in the book which I hoe she did because that's incredibly clever.

All in all, I would say that the Harry Potter books are DEFINATELY a read if you haven't done so, I mean, I don't think anyone in our generation would be forgiven for not having done so. They've shaped the world of childrens publishing and changed culture so much, it really is a testement to JK Rowling just how much you can turn your situation around for yourself, and I feel that that really is something that comes over in the books.

Not sure how to finish this other than to say ... 10/10 ...

 

This was...around the 5th time I read The Deathly Hallows,and I am still sobbing by the end.

Like it has been said already,the whole Snape thing just broke my heart. I mean,he acted that way...because he was in love? Naww.
And when you consider the fact that I already loved Snape with all my heart...well lets just say that I did get extremly teary eyed.

Moving on to the Weasly twins. George losing his ear was...meh to me. I mean,I never really liked George(I dont know why,but still).

Spoiler

But when Fred died.....

Well I always loved him! Probebly because of his name...but still! Why couldnt he have lost the ear? D:

I liked the way the book was written,as it did bring a good ending....and Harry did win,as we all knew he would,but J.K added the twist of

Spoiler

Harry being the last Horcrux

which I thought was a pretty good way of deepening the book,and managing to keep the reader interested. Though I thought there was a bit to much focus on Ron,as I mean,sure he left,but we all knew he would return etc etc and that him and Herminone would get together. And Ginny...I mean really. I never really liked her,just because J.K tried almost to hard to turn a minor character into a major one. And its just a bit cliche,Harry ending up with his best friends sister,and so being related to his two best friends. But I'm rambiling again....

Ok well overall I did love the book,as it was a good end to the series,had lots of twists,and lots of Snape. Omnomnom Snape <3

 

For some reason, I really enjoyed how you couldn't really trust Dumbledore throughout Deathly Hallows. He was Harry's mentor for the past six years, but now Harry had to wonder if he could truly trust him. In the end, my opinion of Albus Dumbledore is this: He was a good man with good intentions, but he seemed to abuse his power at points to manipulate people no matter what. Life was like a game of chess to him: you needed to make certain moves and sometimes sacrifices in order to reach your goal. Which is why it was very sad why he lost out on a relationship with his siblings/

Another thing I loved is that Harry never killed anyone. Yes, he destroyed the horocruxes in Sorcerer's Stone and Chamber of Secrets, but I don't think that really counts as killing him. Harry was being protected by his mother's curse in Sorcerer's Stone and he stabbed a book in Chamber of Secrets, and they were nothing more than just bits of Voldemort's soul. It was Voldemort's own spell that ended up destroying him, allowing hate and anger to cause his actions rather than thinking rationally. Harry stayed a humble and noble right to the very end.

The scene that really got to me was the final battle between Harry and Voldemort. Not because it was the final battle, but because of what Harry said. He spoke to Tom Riddle, not Voldemort, telling him to feel remorse for what he had done. This was the person who killed his parents and many close friends, and he told him that he would be spared if he just felt the least bit of remorse. It really does prove what kind of person Potter is, and who we as people should try to be.

 

Speaking of Dumbledore, my opinion of him kept changing throughout the book. Rowling had conditioned us ever since the first book to believe "Dumbledore = The Ultimate Good". But when we get here, we just get this side story of how Dumbleore really had all these demons in his past. He was best friends with the infamous Grindlewald, he despised having to take care of his younger siblings, and ultimately could have been the one to kill his younger sister.

From Harry's point, just taking this all in after hearing Muriel, Spektor and others talk about how hrrible a person Dumbledore was must have been a giant brick to the face. The mentor he grew up with was similar to Voldemort in the sense that he wanted to further himself before everyone else.

And going off what Clawtooth said, Dumbledore really just seemed to lose sight of Harry as a person. Even in his memories with Snape, he just brushed off the fact that Harry was supposed to die, and didn't really even care what Harry may have thought about it. But at the same time...

this.

Although Dumbledore was manipulative,

Spoiler

he was like Light and Lelouch

the sins he had made and was making were all for a better future. Dumbledore did care for the greater good, but in order to go about making change in that field, he knew sacrifices were a cruel necessity. Did he want to lose contact with his family? Did he really want to see Harry die?

No, but all of these were necessary in preparing Dumbledore himself for preparing Harry to do the deeds he needed to do.

Also, I'm quite curious; what did all of you think about the relationships in the book? Specifically, Harry and Ginny. o:

 

It's a bit weird. When I first read through the Sorcerer's Stone, I always had a feeling that Harry and Hermione would be together at the end of all of this. With Harry and Ginny, it seemed a bit odd when you first look at it. It made a lot more sense when you read what was going through Harry's mind; Harry believed he found an equal that could well complement him in a relationship. To me, that's what a god relationship is, when two people can complement one another and bring out each others strengths. I still think Harry and Hermione would've made a better couple because of their chemistry, but Ginny was also a good choice.

Hermione and Ron though...not so much. I've heard of opposites attract, but this is something I couldn't really see. As they got older, you could tell that Rowling wanted them to be a couple, but it kept feeling like a cliche. They hated each other in the beginning and now they have kids with each other; how many times have we seen that. While I could feel some real good chemistry between Harry and Ginny, there was no romantic chemistry between Hermione and Ron. In a series about magic and witchcraft, you use your suspension of disbelief more on the paring of Hermione and Ron than on the magic itself.

 

i agree with tummer that thoughout most of the books i assumed harry and hermione would be together. Ginnys not really one of my favorite charecters so i didn't really like him and her. And I love the end where Harry has all the cards and treats voldemort like an equal and calls him tom riddle. I think through the entire series though my favorite charecter was always hagrid :). hahaha when grawp throws hagrid through the window and hagrid says "I said to put me through the window, God bless him" and when theyre going through the forest in the march of death eaters with hagrid carrying harry..i actually cried along with when

Spoiler

fred died :(

Spoiler

James and Lily Potter
Loving parents and friends Stag and Doe

Nemphidora(Tonks) and Remus Lupin
Aurors and parents. Werewolf and Metamorphmagus

Dobby, a free elf
A determined, spirited house elf

Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore
A brilliant mind with a troubled past. Phoenix

Fred Weasly
A son, brother, and a prankster hyena

Mad-Eye
"Constant Vigilance" a great auror and a great man.

Cedric Diggory
"exceptionally hard working, infinitely fair-minded, and most importantly, a fierce, fierce friend."
,Dumbledore

Sirius Black
Loving Godfather and a wild spirit who couldnt be tamed. Dog

Severus Snape
A smart ally. Hardend on the outside and broken on the inside. </3 Doe

Colin Creevy
Inquisitive and Carefree.

and Harrys loyal owl Hedwig. ​

They all fought bravely and valiantly in the battle against Tom Riddle and will never be forgotten.<3

 

Yeah, big surprise, he was a human being. It' s not like he hided his manipulative side, it was old news at this point. Remember how he handled people throughout the books, Fudge or Slughorn, for instance ? Harry even had a spectacular nervous breakdown about it in OOTP. Dumbledore was the general in this war, there has to be a manipulative leader at some point (at least he knows first hand how dangerous a game it is to play).

Anyway, if he really didn' t care at all about Harry then why the hell was he waiting for him in "heaven" ?
Plus a gay in heaven, how cool is that ? ^^

 

That is true. :B

But from Harry's viewpoint up until the end of OOTP, Dumbledore wasn't manipulative at all. It was only until he saw Sirius fall and Dumbledore ignore it did he start to realize how Dumbledore was pulling some of the strings.

And that was another thing I liked about this book, too. It pulled in these factors that were established, such as Dumbledore in this case, and really fleshed it out to give us the closure that Dumbledore, as Patman said, was just another human being with problems he caused and had.

 

I love how we grow up with a child's trust of Dumbledore, then as we get older we find out he's not perfect like we believed
Okay so for my project I made Sev's Advanced Potion-Making book
I'm too lazy to scan it but here are some pictures of me and my friends at the midnight Premire all dressed up :)

Spoiler

Friend as Luna:


playing quidditch


Lily sending Harry off to school

Me and Draco

Lily, Sirius, Remus, and Tonks

Destroying the Horcrutz

Swoooon

Lily and Sev 7ever <3

I feel like my pose in this picture just screams Hermione xD

 

Alright, going to wrap this whole post in spoilers just to be safe.

Spoiler

I had to give the book a thorough re-read, as the first time I read it I did so just so when my friends talked about it I wasn't left out of discussion.

The second time around, I picked up on things I didn't notice the first time around. Another member had already mentioned how long the camping scene took, and I actually liked how Rowling used this to show how long and tedious it seemed to be for the trio while they were hunting Horcruxes and staying away from Hogwarts. It really set in when Harry and Hermione were in Godric's Hollow and realized it was Christmas Day.

Then, like others, I noticed that Dumbledore's intentions, although meant for the greater good, seemed to be driven by the power he knew he had. Reading the Prince's Tale, I realized just how much Dumbledore had Snape wrapped around his finger, and was able to bend him to his will all for the sake of Lily, right up until the very end.

I don't remember crying so much before either. I definitely shed a few tears after Dumbledore's death in book 6, but this one had me reaching for the tissue box often. Lupin, Tonks, Fred, Dobby, even Snape's death hit me harder than I thought they would, Snape's even more so after the Prince's Tale.

The epilogue? Kinda cutesy, and interesting that Rowling turned Harry into the average wizard trying to live out his life instead of a hyped about celebrity kind of figure.

 

*Reminder to All Participants


This session of the Book Club will end Thursday, July 21st at 12 am EST.

If you haven't jumped into discussion yet, it is recommended you do so before the deadline. Also, if you have chosen to do them, now would be the time to post your projects! c:

-Plums

 

Okay changing topic toooo
SNAPE AND LILY
why? because I can

and plums is forcing me to post

Okay I love the fact that though the whole series you're like "Gah Snape mumble grumble bad teacher mumble grumble out to get Harry"
and then in this last book
you find out, Snape truley was a good guy
That he was able to love, and he did love <3
Did you know in China, lily means "forever in love", and the flowers were thought to be capable of averting evil
yeahyeah?
-knows way too much background on the names in Harry Potter-
okay I lost my train of thought.....
I'll come back tomorrow once I find it again :)
But to wrap up this horribly rambling post, in one chapter we go from hating Snape to, "Oh god! You weren't that bad after all!"
and it's even worse, because we learn all this after Snape dies ):

there are you happy plums?

edit: eep guess I can't come back tomorrow <.< >.> <.< But you get the jist of what I was trying to say

 

The final book in the Harry Potter series was lackluster. It was a letdown by the author for me. The mass killings were unnecessary. The quest for the Horcruxes was dull and a widget-quest filler. The introduction of the Deathly Hallows this late into the game was also disappointing, for we were unprepared for them. Also, the final battle between Harry and Voldemort was extremely anti-climactic, and not a fulfillment of the fans' wishes to see a proper fight. Too many new charaters were introduced too. By the seventh book, we should be done with new characters, and instead be focusing on developing old characters. Oh, and the epilogue sucked. Period. Overall, I felt that it was an extremely disappointing end to an otherwise-good series.

Firstly, let's cover the killings. In previous books, Rowling had killed off people to develop the situation and to provoke an emotional response from the audience, be it to darken the tone of the story, or to expose more about the characters themselves. When Cedric Diggery was murdered in The Goblet of Fire, it was significant. Despite being a fairly minor character, the tone of the entire story changed. It became one where main characters could, and would, die. The suspense introduced by that one death was enormous. Furthermore, the characters' reaction to the death was significant. Harry had nightmares about him all the way into the opening of the next book. The effect of his death was explored from every character's perspective, from Cho Change to Cedric's father. The deaths in The Deathly Hallows had no such significance. People were killed off simply to wrap up loose ends. Mad-eye was given a few lines to tell us that he had been killed, and that was that. Hedwig was killed off, and then nothing was done with her. Dobby's death was handled relatively well, as he was given his 15 minutes of fame, along with a heroic sacrifice. The same cannot be said of the many, many deaths in the final battle, in which people were killed off and never mentioned again. That's not to say that there can't be shameful, unheroic, realistic death in the stories. Cedric Diggery's was not heroic, yet it was still handled superbly. No so for others. Rowling attempted to use death as a means of ending a character arc, but to use death in such a manner is not an effective way of tying up loose ends, and simply cheats the reader. Some may argue that Rowling was doing this on purpose, so as to display the cruelty and senseless death of war, and purposefully hardening the reader's heart to the many deaths. While this is a valid argument on the surface, underneath, there is a gaping problem with it. Namely, readers are still being cheated out of a satisfying conclusion to their character arcs. Readers don't want to be desensitised to character death, because it ruins all attachment they built up to the character. Furthermore, for Rowling herself, it's a bad idea to attempt to desensitise readers, because while it may increase the feeling that it's a 'real war', it also stops the readers from caring about it at all, and ultimately cheapens death.

The quest for the Horcruxes was also a bad idea. it removed Harry and the gang from Hogwarts, the place where the story was centered, and instead sent them wandering the globe, looking for various objects. In this quest, The Deathly Hallows ceases to be Harry Potter, and instead becomes Deltora Quest. Gathering widgets through a series of separated missions is dull, repetitive, and bores the reader to death. This is even more apparent when the quest to find these widgets is introduced in the second-to-last book, with the majority of the widgets left to be found in a single entry to the series. The widget quest dominated the story, and rather than taking the previous tension and building up to a climax, instead thoroughly killed the suspense. What makes this even worse is how it was tediously drawn out. The Horcrux found in the sixth book was revealed as a fake, thus requiring a good portion of the final book to be devoted to it. Aside from such an enormous waste of time, this increased the duration of the widget quest, and made the entire seventh entry to the series feel far longer than it should. Rowling’s love for the number seven is all very well, but when it begins to impact the story as a whole, it is time to cut back. During the final battle, Harry should be dealing with the many challenges built up over the previous books, not trying to complete a widget quest revealed in the penultimate one. The sudden reveal of the widget quest is cheating the readers of the resolution to other parts of the story that they care about, and instead wastes their time and attention with a quest they do not care about. Likewise, the quest for the Deathly Hallows was equally unimportant to the plot of the story. While it added to the backstory of Harry’s cloak, the remaining two were unnecessary and detracted from the plot. The resurrection stone added to Rowling’s message of ‘death is natural’, but did little else. The wand, on the other hand, became a key plot point of the entire book, and was the decisive factor in the final confrontation. This was an incredibly bad idea, because it was jumped upon the readers, instead of being properly presented in previous books. By the final book, nearly all the pieces should be in place, and the climax should be rising. To take time out of that to spend time on a new plot device is weak writing. In a similar vein, the sudden breaking of Harry’s wand was little more than a Diabolus Ex Machina to force the plot to accommodate the new wand. His wand was placed under far more strain in the previous books without snapping. To then break it as soon as an all-powerful wand was introduced is little more than the writer forcibly intervening in the natural progression of the story. Like the Horcruxes, the Deathly Hallows were a widget quest. However, unlike the Horcruxes, they were even more pointless, for they were unnecessary to the story at all

The introduction of the Elder Wand led to the final battle between Voldemort and Harry coming down to an anti-climax. The entire story up until that moment was about Harry Potter developing as a wizard, coming to best Voldemort. Certainly, it’s been a motif that Voldemort’s pure skill was inferior to the power of love, and that needs to be reflected in the final battle. The battle did not have such a conclusion though. Harry won through serendipitous chance. A Deus Ex Machina. Instead of the Elder Wand belonging to Voldemort, it turned out to belong to Draco, who had been disarmed by Harry earlier, meaning it was now luckily in Harry’s possession, so he could easily win the final duel in a single spell. Such an anti-climax is unacceptable for a book with so great of a build up to that one fight. The battle felt rushed and unfinished, with Rowling not knowing how to have the hero, Harry Potter, overthrow the villain. Deprived of the previous methods Harry used (namely, his mother’s protection) she resorted to introducing the widget quest of the Deathly Hallows to resolve the final fight. This decision leaves readers unsatisfied, and disappointed with the outcome of the battle, and as a consequence, disillusioned with the series.

Also important to note is how the character built up over the past few books were neglected in development. Rowling attempted to cheat the readers out of this deserved development of character by killing them off so as to provide a resolution for their story. However this is still unsatisfactory for the readers, because it cheapens death and does not bring a fitting end to the character arcs, as previously discussed. In other cases, characters are neglected entirely. This is partially due to the setting of The Deathly Hallows being different to the rest of the books. By not being situated in Hogwarts, the story is unable to deal with the majority of the people introduced in other books. Instead, newer characters are introduced and developed in the space of a single book. This is not what the readers want, because it is not dealing with the characters they have grown accustomed to. Certainly, some characters were developed and fleshed out, such as Snape, while others, such as Fred and George, were reduced to being victims of the off-to-the-side death. We do not even get to see how the remaining twin deals with the death of his partner. It’s incredibly disconcerting to the reader, and leaves the reader with the feeling that Rowling does not care. This is only emphasized in the epilogue to the story, which was little better than fanfiction. Instead of seeing how every character dealt with the defeat of Voldemort, we are left with but a generic snapshot of Harry on platform 9¾. It’s incredibly disconcerting to have such an unfulfilling epilogue from an author who usually packs her books with as much detail as possible, and does not fulfill reader expectations.

Overall, I felt that The Deathly Hallows was an unsatisfactory end to an otherwise acceptable series. It deviated too heavily from the bases laid out in the previous books and introduced too many new plot points. While it did attempt to deal with many of the characters, it did not deal with them sufficiently, especially in regards to death and the epilogue.

 

Alright, well it looks like the first Book Club Session will end with Pika's eye killing controversial, yet in depth and well thought out post!

Thank you to all who participated this round! c:
The poll to decide the next book will be up shortly.

For those that would like to continue discussion, you may do so in the General Harry Potter Discussion thread.

Consider this thread

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