Atheists know God better than any Christian, Jew, or Muslim can hope...

I understand you're points clear enough, but it'show earnest in that belief with which I wish to question.

But even non-believers have, for years, come up with creativity and dreams beyond what some would call the restriction or religious belief. The Mona Lisa's painter, Leonardo Da Vinci, was not likely a man of God according to most of the records about him, yet he came up with a portrait that captured many people's thoughts and ideas.

And you put yourself down too much. You have the potential of every human out there to do what you want, all you need is the drive and belief to do it. God is not the only path to dreams, remember you tourself have the greatest potential to unlock. Hopefully believing in God will cause you success but rmember you are th emaker of your destiny. But like I said that belief just makes it seem like a short cut to success something you've not properly earned.

I know what really believing feels like, a euphoria almost. But I abanoned the idea of God when I found more to believe in myself, then in something I will likely never meet or unerstand. I hope God is more New Testament then Old. Less vengeful of the heretics such as me, I guess.

 

Hey guys, I' m racist, I think anyone whose skin isn' t white is trash, but that' s just my opinion so that' s Ok, right ?
Stating that something intolerant is just "what you believe" doesn' t make it any less offensive or intolerant.

There are other alternatives, you know ?
What about Muslims ? Buddhists ? What about Atheists who led a moral driven, happy life ?

That sentence only means that believing Jesus is God is one way to "be saved", it certainly doesn' t mean it is the only way.

I can see why the church would want their followers to believe it' s the only way, but I can' t see any valid logic to it. A truly loving and caring father wouldn' t burn his own child just because he doesn' t want his help. If God indeed exists I expect him to judge me on my acts, on the way I lived my life, whether I believed or not in a God who doesn' t visit or call me, like ... ever, seems quite irrelevant.

If believing in God was indeed the only way to be saved why wouldn' t he show himself on TV every now and then ? It wouldn' t rob anyone of their free will (knowing that something is actualy true or actualy exists never impeded anyone' s free will), and everyone would be saved, two birds with one stone ! ^^

"Aide-toi, Dieu t' aideras" (God helps those who help themselves).
You have to believe in something to be happy and do something with your life, that much is true, I just don' t agree we necessarily have to believe in God.

 

Well, I've pretty much said all I wanted to say, and it seemed like you understood most of my points well enough. I assure you, my belief is as earnest as can be, and I'm never going to give it up.

Spoiler

Even if I stand alone, even if every other person on the planet hated me with all their heart and chased me down 'till I had nowhere left I could hide, I wouldn't give it up. And if they tortured me beyond all other forms of pain, I wouldn't give it up. And if they chained me to a stake and burned me till I fell apart, I wouldn't give it up. If they stuck me in a giant freezer 'till I froze to death, I wouldn't give it up. If they buried me alive and left me to suffocate beneath the ground, I would never give it up. If they shot me straight in the heart, I would never give it up. If they ripped me from limb to limb, I would never give it up. If they beat me half to death, and gave me no food or water, and nailed me to a cross and yelled at me "Where is your precious Jesus now?" I would die singing praises to my God, thanking him for letting me go the same way He went. And if I lived to the end of my days in peace, with a little house and a garden, visited by my grandchildren and my great-grandchildren, I would tell them stories about Jesus and what he did for me. That's how earnest I am in my faith.

lol, sorry for getting a little crazy there. I'll be normal and cool-headed now. :P
As for me being the maker of my own destiny, try as I might, I am only human, and if serving God is just a shortcut to a better life, give me those cheat-codes, baby! And as for you no longer believing, I'm sorry to hear that, but it is, after all, your choice. lol, I wouldn't consider you a heretic. Mistaken, maybe. Mislead, possibly. Heretical? Naw. A heretic is someone that teaches so-called 'Life Truths' that go against the word of God, all the while calling it God. So far, you've just been asking simple questions.
Ugh, here I go over explaining things again. I guess, all I'm trying to say is, it was fun debating with you. :)

 

Hmm...guys. There's a healthy difference between discussing or debating, and insulting. Can we please try to keep a gentle and tolerating spirit? There's no need for harsh sarcasm or witty comments, which just turn the discussion into some fight. Respect each other, please.

This section is for enlightenment and knowledge, not intolerance or pride. So please, don't purposely bring a person to rage when you believe something you say may offend them.

 

Yeah, I'm sorry. I do feel bad about that, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I've gone through my posts and put spoiler tags around every out-and-out "I-believe" statement. That way, if someone wants to read it, they can, and no one who doesn't want to read it doesn't have to. I'll also do that from now on. Again, sorry for being offensive. I really, honestly didn't mean to be. :)

 

I don' t think he was talking about you, he erased the post that was right before his.
Anyway, if your point being intolerant doesn' t prevent you to think it nonetheless let me put it this way : I don' t think anyone should venture into deciding who will go to Hell and who won' t, that' s up to God and no one else. Last time I checked judging others in His place was a sin, being intolerant in general was a sin too. The Bible can be interpreted in many ways, there' s absolutly no way to tell wich one is more correct than the other. What exactly makes you think your interpretation (i.e. not believing in Him can only lead to Hell) is necessarily the "correct" one ? A little humility can' t hurt, right ? ^^

 

Well, even if he wasn't reffering to me, I had already decided to hide my posts in spoiler tags. I still don't want to offend anyone, even if someone else is more offensive.

And I'm sorry if I made it seem like I was trying to judge who would go to hell and who wouldn't. You are absolutely right, I have no right to judge.

Spoiler

It says in the book of Romans chapter 2 verse 1 "You, therefore have no excuse, you who pass judgement on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgement do the same things." lol, when I was younger, I used that verse to tell my sisters that they shouldn't tell me what I shoud or should not do because they were just as bad as I was. But then I realized that it was talking to me. I shouldn't judge anyone else, because I was just as bad as they were. Everyone sins at one point in their life. Even the nicest person in the world told a lie at least once or disobeyed those in authority. There is no way any human can live their life without sin. So yeah, I'm sorry if I came across as judgemental.

And as for knowing wether or not my interpretation is the correct one, well, I can answer that question. The NIV version (the one I usually read), was translated by a large group of language scholars, the group being so large so there would be a system of checks and balances. For their texts, they used hundreds of original manuscripts, all in the original Greek and Hebrew. If one scholar thought that a certain sentence should be translated this way, and another thought it should be translated another way, the whole group discussed it and eventually came to what everybody agreed was the best translation, based on the language. And we don't just have to believe the original munuscripts on blind faith. There are evidences and proofs of the whole thing, if a person looks long enough and hard enough, they will eventually find that the bible is true. And yes, I really should try to be a little more humble. I'm sorry that I came across as proud.

 

Erm ... weren' t the original manuscripts in Hebrew ?

The fact that some sentences were the subect of debate just proves my point, you can' t be absolutely certain that their translation is 100% accurate. Furthermore I' m pretty sure my interpretation of their translation would be quite different from yours, how could we know for sure which one of us is closer to "the truth" ?
The truly wise man is the one who question himself and leads others to question themselves, the one who claims to have all the answers is obviously either a liar or deluded.

 

The Old Testament was in Hebrew, the New Testament was in Greek. I guess I should have said "...all in the original Greek and Hebrew." Sorry for the mistakes on my part. I'll edit that later.

You are absolutely right about the wise man being one who questions himself and leads others to question themselves. That's why the scholars who translated the bible had to debate and discuss the original manuscripts. If just one man had decided that he knew all the answers, he would have been deluded and we would have a lousy translation written by a foolish man. Instead, all the scholars knew that they themselves were only human and likely to make mistakes in their translations. That's why they needed to debate and discuss. In my opinion, that gives us an even better chance to have the most correct translation. As for our personal interpretation of their translation, you are right again. That is completely up to you. I have my interpretation, and you have yours.

Spoiler

And my interpretation says that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one gets to God except through him. I got that interpretation from the book of John chapter 14 verse 6 when Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me."

 

Yes, we can't translate everything from ancient texts 100% accurately (we can't even do that between modern languages a lot of the time), but I think the subject of the material is more important than the wording itself. Many times it is just the way the wording is because there isn't always, for example, an English term for every Hebrew term (if you look into the Greek-to-English translations of the Bible, you'll see many instances where one word is used in English but there are actually different forms of the word in Greek. "Love" would be an example of this.) But differences in language does not diminish the Message found in the Bible.

The thing is, the Bible is always open to interpretation. One person can read a passage and get one point out of it and another person could see it a totally different way, but both persons could be completely right in their interpretations even though they are different (I think that's what makes the Bible a beautiful text). It is when these interpretations breed intolerance (my interpretation is right, you're wrong) and people use them as a means to justify their own human ideas/desires that such interpretations could be seen as "wrong" interpretations. It is hard for me to explain, but that's basically what I think.