Rules

Discussion in 'Feedback & Assistance' started by Misty, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. Misty gimme kiss

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    Because many of you expressed that you were unhappy with the newly posted rules, we've decided to post this thread where you can explain to us what exactly your objections are. The spam zone is a bit too unorganized and informal for such a discussion; it would be much easier on the staff if posted here, as we believe posts in the Suggestions forum will be more constructive and mature. Simply posting "I don't like the rules because they offend me" is very unclear and difficult to respond to, for us; we would prefer it if you included sections that you do have issues with, and why. Specific suggestions on what to add to the rules are also appreciated.

    We are willing and open to listen to any problems you may have with them (that is the point of this thread after all), and though there are some points that you will find us inflexible on, we will at the very least explain the reasoning behind them and try to meet you guys halfway. In return, we ask that you offer us the same openness to compromise, and listen to what we, as the staff, have to say, both as members of the forum and as members of the staff.

    Everyone is welcome to post here, regardless of how you feel overall about the newly posted rules, how long you have been here, whatever. You are also welcome to respond to the posts and complaints of others, if you feel it necessary; everyone is on the same level here.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Plums Wakanda Forever

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    I talked with Jiku Neon (a member believe it or not everyone), and she suggested the following:

    I feel that this would be perfectly good to add. And the thing is we -should- have added this, and for that I apologize. Like I said to Jiku it's a bit difficult to try and identify every negative little thing (which we would try to do because we're crazy), but not doing it all the same is no excuse either.

    We've been busy quite a bit, a few of us are on vacations and doing work all day (I for one am in a pretty intense precollege summer thing), but still.

    In any case, we are here guys, and we do want and try to listen (as talking to Jiku will hopefully show), but it's a two way street. Relations between everyone have not been good at all lately and it is basically devolving into Staff vs Member, which is horrible for everyone. In some cases, initiative may need to be taken on your part, which is what this section is for (as well as our PM boxes).

    We're not machines, we're just as much people and members as all of you. We have hard times, and we also have trouble talking to people just like most people on the Internet. Honestly for me it's really hard, but I'm willing to try if everyone else is. Everyone behind these monitors is a person, which is a fact I think all of us, staff, member, banned or otherwise, should do best to remember.

    tl;dr: jiku made a good suggestion everyone listen to her
     
  3. GhettoXemnas literally dead inside

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    I'm still wondering why Vivi's first thread was locked, considering we were breaking no rules that I know of and I feel as if we were all being rather civil.
     
  4. ♥♦♣♠∟uxord♥♦♣♠ Banned

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    "Are we really on the same level? Not only with the rules but the staff as a whole, things always seemed split apart. Staff are above us, right or wrong. That always seems to be the case. So why would we bother wasting our time voicing our opinions if it isn't going to matter anyway?"
     
  5. Saxima [screams geometrically]

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    I'd like this answered, please.
     
  6. Plums Wakanda Forever

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    Ha, actually have a response to this.

    I can see why you think that way. I did last year quite a bit, especially with all the Voxli things going on. I remember talking to Misty about it one day (March of 2011 iirc), but she actually listened to what I had to say.

    There is a split between staff and members, which has always been present in some shape or form, but your voice is never ignored. We hear what everyone has to say, even if it is really abrasive (which is really annoying for me personally, tbh. If you're going to discuss/debate with someone being respectful of each other is important).

    If anything though, I agree that we should try to close that gap, but we do it with mutual respect for one another.
     
  7. Ienzo ((̲̅ ̲̅(̲̅C̲̅r̲̅a̲̅y̲̅o̲̅l̲̲̅̅a̲̅( ̲̅̅((>

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    You raise a valid point but this forum is not just made up of staff and we are here to help every member try and get the best they possibly can out of this site, we don't want to be big meanie pants people all the time.

    Your opinions do matter, we value them, we want them so we can make the forum a better place because we can't do it alone- sometimes we miss things that we need to be corrected on. You should voice your thoughts so we can discuss them and reach a compromise of some description because if you don't then nothing will change and everyone eill forever be at each other's throats. Your opinions do matter and they always will- if they generally are a proper concern and something that could improve the site then something will be done. We want to work with you all if you will work with us.
     
  8. Misty gimme kiss

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    Because we would like to discuss the rules in a more controlled and structured atmosphere.
    That disparity doesn't need to exist. We do our best to remain accessible to you guys, and to listen; the problem is that presiding over any large body means some people are going to be left unhappy or disappointed. We cannot tip to every member demand, much as we might like to please everyone. It's simply impossible. I think part of this is an issue of perspective--you feel that you may not be treated equally to the staff, whereas I've occasionally felt that being a staff member has subjected me to certain stresses and prejudices. It's a multi-layered issue. What have we done that's made you feel this way? Edit: mostly ninja'd by Enzy and Plums
     
  9. GhettoXemnas literally dead inside

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    But now the members that arguably cause the most problems and were actively discussing things in that thread are nowhere to be found. This is what Makaze, myself and Noise were talking about. In the spamzone the discussion may be somewhat unstructured, it had much more participation. Here, the structure is a weak skeleton. This is probably one of the most active threads in this section in a long time and yet it's still nothing in comparison to the thread you locked.
     
  10. ♥♦♣♠∟uxord♥♦♣♠ Banned

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    [MARQUEE]"check my username"[/MARQUEE]
     
  11. Bushy "Don't think. Imagine!"

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    I feel that I have to concur. If people don't mind my opinion being shared here.

    And personally... since it's an opinion, can this be considered wrong? I'm not saying it should outright be considered a yes too. But one thing I've noticed is that when an opinion is voiced, a number of times, staff has slapped the label of wrong, or inappropriate, or that it is a matter that should just plain not be discussed.

    But yes, I have to agree completely with Ace here.
     
  12. Misty gimme kiss

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    And here it will also have more staff attention. People who complain without putting effort into actually changing things don't have much cause to complain; we're trying to offer you guys a place where you can voice concerns, in an environment that is easier on the staff. I've posted a link to this thread in the spam zone, so it will garner attention; feel free to send it to anyone who may have missed it.
    I'm sorry Ace, I'm not quite understanding. More specifically? We can't really address an issue if we don't see it; we're asking to be shown.
     
  13. Ienzo ((̲̅ ̲̅(̲̅C̲̅r̲̅a̲̅y̲̅o̲̅l̲̲̅̅a̲̅( ̲̅̅((>

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    Sadly, the Spamzone isn't designed for serious debate as people could go off topic and get heated pretty quickly. Activity is good and currently there are 11 members viewing this thread, they may not post but they will if they have anything to say. The spamzone breeds unstructured call outs and gets nowhere quickly which is just unproductive. In this thread posts can actually be taken seriously and people can get their point across without being lost under the mass of spam posts. The thread that was closed achieved very little in ways of helping us improve the rules for you all.
     
  14. GhettoXemnas literally dead inside

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    I just don't see why the thread that broke no rules had to be locked and all the other pointless threads of outrage and satire had to spill over into the spam zone and then this had to be made and NOW the rest of the staff decide to engage us when half the staff posting here were watching the first thread and saying nothing. I mean I understand this thread isn't moving as fast and is easier to reply to, but if the other staff would have posted instead of doing nothing you wouldn't have had to struggle to keep up with all of our posts.
     
  15. ♥♦♣♠∟uxord♥♦♣♠ Banned

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    If you don't see it? That's the fucking problem. Why do you think people kill themselves? Because there's no way out to them. The same goes for forum suicides. When someone has been pushed and pushed into thinking that all they can do is end everything then there is something wrong going on.
     
  16. GhettoXemnas literally dead inside

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    I really don't think this thread is any better because even though it lacks the spam it lacks the valid points that are made in some of those spam posts. A valid point doesn't have to be a serious post.

    Dude you're really not helping our case. Regardless of how much you feel the staff are being ignorant to the point you're trying to make, you're really not making one in anyone else's eyes at the moment. NO ONE understands exactly what you're getting at right now.
     
  17. Misty gimme kiss

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    Because we feared that it would just continue to be unproductive complaining over the rules. Forgive me, but I thought you guys were calling to have the staff listen to you? That's what we're trying to do here. A lot of threads poking fun or outright demeaning the new rules were left open. We're just asking that serious discussion be moved towards this thread.

    I can't speak for the rest of the staff but I have told them that they should reply to this thread with both their thoughts and with replies to what others are saying.
    I agree, and that is why we felt it necessary to emphasize in our rules that any kind of bullying isn't welcome on this site.
     
  18. Bushy "Don't think. Imagine!"

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    And yet I've seen staff doing some bullying itself. With all due respect here, but maybe the rules need to be emphasized for some of the staff members as well.
    I'm sure I'm not the only person who has noticed it either.
     
  19. GhettoXemnas literally dead inside

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    And I'm posting in this thread because I see what you're trying to do and would hate for your kind gesture to be ignored. I personally just think it still could have been done in that first thread without all the foolish antics and such in between even though it would have been a bit more difficult for you guys. I see why you guys did this, I respect it, I just have a differing opinion because that's me.
     
  20. Misty gimme kiss

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    The staff are all under a lengthy contract that Mark and I wrote, with strict policies against being rude to members. I would be happy to share some sections from it with you guys.