ITT I murder your cinnamon roll while your cinnamon roll murders others

Discussion in 'Kingdom Hearts Unchained χ' started by Lauriam, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. Lauriam I hope I didn't keep you waiting...

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    I've got some theories regarding the whole "traitor, lost page, Strelitzia murder, heart box" thingie and I just want to like, lay them out so they make sense, and when I texted the whole thing to my sister at 4AM last night while I was thinking it up, she basically was like "yeah I guess that could happen" and didn't really care, so now YOU guys get to read the expanded, "I had a couple hours to research it" version. XD Obvi there will be spoilers ahead lol.

    First off, this entire theory came to me because I was thinking about something Cstar said, about how maybe Ven's the one who murdered Strelitzia, and Brain AND Lauriam are both just misdirects, and Ven is just automatically viewed as inno because everyone knows him as the pure-hearted cinnamon roll of light he was in BBS. XD I was like "woah you're totally right" and haven't really been able to stop thinking about it ever since, so then last night, everything started fitting together and making sense.

    1. I don't think any of the five Foretellers are the traitor discussed on Gula's lost page.

    People already think Luxu was the real traitor, and I agree, just... I don't think he was the traitor until after the world had already ended. Because I don't think the Lost Page was talking about the five Foretellers at all, I think it was talking about the NEW Union Leaders, and it was completely misread and everyone just THOUGHT it was talking about them.

    Firstly, because we already know there's a traitor among the new Union Leaders. We've known it from the very beginning of the new group, ever since Strelitzia was murdered. XD Since we know there is a traitor in their group, it's not that far off to assume that the Lost Page could have been talking about them instead of the Foretellers.

    Secondly, for a long time, Ava was the only one who even knew about the Dandelions, which can be evidenced by her conflict with Invi in Backcover, when Invi accuses Ava of secretly gathering gifted Keyblade weilders and training them in another location, and is surprised when Ava admits it as her role. If the others (especially Gula) didn't know about the Dandelions when talk of a traitor first began, they definitely wouldn't consider the possibility of the traitor being from the new generation of Union Leaders rising after they're gone. When Ira declares there is a traitor, Gula already believes it and accepts it because of the Lost Page he thinks can only apply to them. And since that's how everyone takes it, that's how it's framed in the story, and since that's how it's framed in the story, that's how the audience is expected to take it. But we all know that in KH, what is framed as "definitely true" might actually be a complete misdirect. XD

    Thirdly, we know very little about what was on the Lost Page or what was in the Book of Prophecy. Both are described as being vague and difficult to understand - like the franchise itself lol - and largely up for individual interpretation. Plus, since we know that the Dandelions were completely left out and Ava was tasked with gathering them in secret, it seems totally plausible for other things to be left out as well - such as the murder of a future Union Leader. And you might defend that such a thing wouldn't be in the Book of Prophecies because it ends with the destruction of their world and the death of the Foretellers, but I say that's just another misdirect and was applied to the wrong situation. XD We know the book continues on after the Keyblade War, because A. it's used as an in-story explanation for the worlds, outfits, and medals from the future, claiming they were "created from the Book of Prophecies." B. If the prophecies ended at the Keyblade War, why give the last copy to one of the new Union Masters in the first place? And C. Because again, if the prophecies ended at the Keyblade War, why tell Luxu to pass on the Gazing Eye for generations of wielders, when there would be no more use of it before the end of his and his colleagues' lifetimes? So yeah the book DEFINITELY goes on long past the Keyblade War with the Foretellers, so the Lost Page could TOTALLY have been taken from a completely different part of the book, and everything's just so vague and confusing that nobody realized they were applying it to the wrong generation. XD

    2. If the traitor from the Lost Page was talking about one of the new Union Leaders, how can it still be Luxu?

    Alright, so, here's why I think it's Luxu: When I was scrolling through pics of the new Union Leaders searching for any sign of the Sigil (since Gula specifically states that the Lost Page describes the traitor as the one with the Sigil) I happened upon this picture of Luxu:
    [​IMG]
    Granted, the zippers on Org. XIII can be difficult to see, but it doesn't seem like any of the other zippers look like that, it's just Luxu and the Master of Masters who seem to have the Sigil attached. And at any rate, they definitely are the only ones in UX who seem to have the sigil anywhere near them. So, although it's possible for MoM to be the traitor, I'm going to assume for this theory that the traitor is Luxu.

    But since I think the traitor is also one of the new Five Union Leaders, I believe that Luxu is the one who murdered Strelitzia and infiltrated the Union Leaders under a new name. Gula's Lost Page states:
    "Unable to permit disharmony, you will be disappointed by fate, and lose sight of true strength...
    Misreading the truth, you will venture forth in secrecy...
    And then with that one strike, a bell will toll for the final battle, and the battle will begin at last, and the time shall be chosen..."

    The story frames it so that it seems like Ava is the true but unwitting traitor, 'misreading the truth' and thinking Luxu is the traitor, 'venturing forth in secrecy' to find him, 'Unable to permit disharmony,' 'disappointed by fate,' and 'losing sight of true strength' along the way and then delivering the 'one strike' that marks the battle. But... Like, if the battle started after the bell was struck, at night, and Ava is already there leading her troops into battle, how did she have time to get there if the strike that rang the bell was her clashing keys with Luxu in daylight? Instead, I think that she clashed keys with Luxu, maybe she won, and left, idk, we don't really see the conclusion of their fight. And then she thinks the crisis is maybe averted, but unbeknownst to her, Luxu survived - maybe with the assistance of what's in the box, maybe Ava spared his life because she couldn't kill him and she believed it was enough, maybe she DID strike him down and he became a Nobody and a Heartless, which, might be possible for him because of what's inside the box. XD Or, maybe because he has No Name, and he uses it to free his own heart from his body and Ava just thinks it's a suicide or something? Idk.

    Either way, Luxu survived the clash with Ava in some way, shape or form, and then he was disappointed by fate, and maybe he (since he didn't have a Book of Prophecies) decided the Foretellers were screwing up the world (one literally tracked him down against the Master's orders, accused him of being a traitor, and attacked him before running off to join a war against the other Foretellers) and he was unable to permit disharmony, and he lost sight of true strength. Misreading the truth, he ventured forth in secrecy, and started searching for the one thing he wasn't permitted to have, that the others all got while he was cast aside (making use of his Deadly Sin being 'Lust') the Book of Prophecies. He learned about the Dandelions and, somehow, learned that Strelitzia was meant to be a Union Leader in the new world (oh yeah a second thing he wasn't allowed to have, a Union) and so he killed her and stole her book, and with that one strike, which we know happened before the final battle since Strelitzia was searching for Player to warn him of the final battle, the keyblade war began.

    3. I think that Luxu is Ventus, and that he killed Strelitzia.

    Again, Cstar is the one who posed the "Ven is the murderer" theory to me, but I agree with it wholeheartedly, and I think it does fit with my theory that the traitor is also Luxu. We know that the traitor is unable to permit disharmony: In the game, Ventus is vehemently against having the wielders fight with each other, the story even going as far as to have Brain point out that it's the first time he's stated an opinion of his own rather than just going with what the others want. We know that the traitor "lost sight of true strength," and I mean, Ventus is constantly mentioning that he doesn't believe he's strong enough to be a Union Leader. We know that Ventus claims to be envious of Skuld and Ephemer's friendship because he has "always been alone," much as Luxu was sent to wander forever, alone. Also, I believe he freely admits he's not in a party or group and doesn't know any of the other Dandelions - which sounds kind of like he's offering an explanation as to why no one will recognize or know him before one is even asked, another sign of a guilty conscience. XD

    Not to mention, when Brain questions the absolute authority of the rules and Skuld declares that yes, they are absolute, Brain and Ventus both agree it makes her a lot like Ava, even though earlier Ventus claims not to have spent much time with Ava (iirc, correct me on that if I'm wrong, I just sort of remember that being a thing I originally dismissed as a continuity or translation error) which is a pretty big tell that he's lying. XD

    Another reason why I believe Ventus is actually the murderer is the existence of Vanitas, and the appearance of Vanitas' keyblade. Because while yes, BBS Ven is a precious gem baby who deserves nothing but love and ice cream, Vanitas is way stronger and way darker than one would expect the 'dark part' of UX Ventus's heart as-framed to be. His presence, power, and personality imply that Ven's heart was much darker to begin with than it first appears. Like a deep secret he carries with him, like an unsolved murder. Meanwhile, Vanitas keyblade is especially interesting:
    [​IMG]
    First off, note all the gears, which are just clearly a reference to the huge room Ventus spent time in as a Union Leader. It's possible that the gears are only indicating that Ven just inhabited the room, but I also think the dark, red-lined broken look of the gears making up the head and key of the blade could indicate a more sinister connection with the room, like he literally killed to get there again. The chains on the keyblade also fascinate me, as chains signify imprisonment, which is also sometimes heavily associated with guilt. I also want to note that this is the only keyblade that has two Gazing Eyes actually set in the blade itself. Every other keyblade save two only has one Gazing Eye if any, and the other two keyblades with two eyes only have one in the blade, the other being a tiny one set in the keychain. Vanitas having the singular honor of two Gazing Eyes in his keyblade could be a clue that he is actually a part of Luxu, the first to inherit the eye to begin with. Honestly, Vanitas' keyblade is exactly the kind of Keyblade I would expect from Strelitzia's killer, especially if her killer was also Luxu.

    4. Ventus's connection to Lauriam and Elrena fits with Roxas's later connections to Marluxia and Larxene.

    Now, with this one, I don't have as much to say, because I haven't played/watched CoM or even Days in a long time, and although my sis and I are watching through all the scenes in preparation for 3, it's slow going and we're only partway through those two games. From what we've seen, however, it makes sense. I think that eventually, Lauriam does realize that Ventus is the killer, and since he claims to be Strelitzia's brother (and there's no logical reason for him to be lying) and since it's heavily implied that Elrena was one of Strelitzia's few friends, they would have ample reason to hate Ventus. Enter Roxas, who looks practically identical to him. Larxene verbally abuses Roxas every chance she gets, and although that is within her character, it just seems... way more spiteful with him than it does when she does it to Sora or to the other members of the Organization. She seems to almost go out of her way to punish Roxas, when with everyone else, it just sort of seems like she's doing it for lols. Larxene acts really bitter, too, not just heartless, and she openly admits she doesn't want to regain her heart because hearts hurt - a feeling you can imagine would be all-too present in someone who's friend was murdered in cold blood for no reason.

    Marluxia, on the other hand, doesn't seem happy about Roxas, but treats him civilly - but after seeing the way he acts among the other Union Leaders (guarded, but pleasant and even friendly) when he must at least suspect them of his sister's disappearance, him being able to act genial to Roxas makes sense. Moreover, Marluxia and Larxene are the two traitors in Castle Oblivion, who aim to use Sora to overthrow the Organization. But I don't remember it being specified how they intend to use him. In CoM, it's played off (iirc) as "dur we need a keyblade to win" but they have a Keyblade with Roxas, and know that Vexen's puppet is primed to become a second one. Instead, they say that Sora is "the key." Not just the keyblade wielder, "the key." What if they know that Sora is somehow the key to finding Ventus, and their main goal is to find him and exact revenge for Strelitzia, and betraying the Organization is just a side effect of their true plan, as the Superior is searching for Ven as well and killing him before the Superior finds him is betrayal in and of itself? Put another way, they're not using Sora in order to betray the Organization, but rather, they're betraying the Organization by using Sora.

    I especially believe this since Marluxia is the one who lured Sora to CO in the first place, while Zexion and the other non-traitors were like "Someone's in the castle... Woah, it's Sora. Omg someone else is here too. Huh, it's Riku! Vexen, you want to help me run experiments on these two jokers to test out our puppets? Cool? Cool." XD

    The fact that Marluxia and Larxene were the last to join the Organization before Roxas anyway, especially one right after the other, gives me reason to believe they let themselves be found and recruited as part of a grander scheme to infiltrate the Organization due to Xemnas's control over Castle Oblivion, and his connection to the Ventus from BBS.

    Speaking of Xemnas's connection to Ven in BBS...

    5. I believe that Xehanort is, if not the Master of Masters, directly tied to him somehow.

    I mean, I don't need to talk much about this. There's already been ample discussion of Xehanort being the Master of Masters. tbh I hadn't really put that much weight into it, idk, I know there's lots of evidence, but he just... never seemed to act like him to me. Speaking honestly, I always thought Braig seemed WAY more like the MoM as far as personality goes. idk, maybe he is the MoM and Xehanort is and always was just his patsy, but that's not likely either. (I'll probs have more thoughts on that once I actually get to the rewatch of 3D lol) Either way, in my theory, Ventus believed Xehanort was the Master of Masters before his memories were taken before the start of BBS. I don't know how or why he might've been fooled if Xehanort isn't MoM, but he clearly is Xehanort's apprentice in BBS, calling him 'Master' and begging him to call off the heartless he's meant to fight. Which, in light of the rest of my theory, would end up being less about the strength of his opponents, and more about his faltered strength of heart. If Ven's conscience about Strelitzia's death is matched by his guilt about the Keyblade War, and if he realized that his actions are what led to the darkness in the world, and if he knows that the Heartless are creatures born from hearts that were swallowed by that darkness (many of those hearts being swallowed during the Keyblade War he caused) then perhaps it's guilt that caused him to be unable to face the Heartless, not weakness in battle.

    I still honestly don't buy that Xehanort is the MoM. I'll probably be proven wrong, lol, and he might be revealed to be so later, but I seriously doubt it. The only thing that makes me believe it's even possible is the fact that Ven seems to think so, and I think Ven is Luxu, who would know. XD If Xehanort is the MoM, then I think he definitely knew Ventus's true name and his history, and he might have actually been punishing him with his own guilt, for betraying him and disobeying his orders. He took his own keyblade back from Ventus, and... No, it just - urgh, it just doesn't make sense for Xehanort to be MoM. XD It really truly doesn't. The time gap between Ventus in UX and Ventus in BBS without him aging can be explained by the presence of time travel and data worlds and etc. and what have you, all that junk that let the real Maleficent get into UX with the unknown figure (who might also be Ventus/Luxu) because we don't have any history of Ventus existing between those two points. He could have just jumped. But not Xehanort! We have a lot of linear backstory for Xehanort. His homeworld being Destiny Islands, his leaving the islands to train alongside Eraquas, his history running around the worlds as he grew older from there, him showing up on Yen Sid's radar from time to time, enough that Yen Sid was aware of his continued existence in that timeframe, it just doesn't make sense for him to also be the MoM! Ugh. I have no freaking clue. But somehow, he's connected enough to MoM for Ventus to believe he is.

    Wait wait wait... Okay so let's assume that by the end of the UX updates, Ventus will jump through time to the future somehow. If he is Luxu, he leaves behind his keyblade, which is then passed down through generations as we know happened. Xehanort is not the MoM in this assumption, but his backstory is as it's been presented. Wants to leave the Islands, trains up with Eraquas, takes the No Name keyblade. When Ven arrives in the timeline again, he sees that Xehanort has the keyblade, and that's why he believes Xehanort is the MoM. He knows the MoM "faded" and disappeared, and now he's been sent forward in time where an old man carries the Master's keyblade. He believes this is where his Master disappeared to, and assumes Xehanort is his Master. There. XD That probably won't be what happens, but loose end in my crackpot theory solved. XD

    And, if Ventus jumped through time from UX to BBS through methods only a Union Leader would know, it follows that Lauriam would probably be able to do the same, and take Elrena with him. In fact, perhaps the reason Ventus jumps through such a drastic length of time - without his keyblade, even - is to get away from Lauriam and Elrena, after they discover what he's done. And perhaps maybe the reason Lauriam and Elrena become Marluxia and Larxene is because something went wrong and they lost their hearts during the jump. XD (Maybe the reason they show up way too late is because they overshot the distance or because the data/world-jumping/time-scanning Book of Prophecies dropped them at the wrong Sigil, giving them Roxas's timeline instead of BBS Ven's.) XD

    So... wow that took forever to write up. XD I've been thinking this over for like two and a half weeks and I just... wanted to talk to anyone about it since my sis loves KH but is not nearly as deep into the lore as I am. XD And quite a few of you guys are even deeper in than I am, so yeah if you tear it to shreds I won't mind. XD
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018