(Intelligent) Design vs. Natural Selection

Discussion in 'Discussion' started by Makaze, Sep 26, 2014.

  1. Makaze Some kind of mercenary

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    Unlike most threads about this topic, this one is not about which is more likely to be the case. This one is about which is better.

    I posit that all design is sub-optimal to natural selection. I believe this because:

    1. Any being that designs a thing can only design things within the scope of its own knowledge and ability. It is impossible for any being to be aware of any knowledge outside of its perception and so it must assume that the world it sees is all there is.
    2. Nature encompasses all things, even those things outside of the perception of all beings.

    A being will color within the lines of the limits it sees.
    The universe will color within the lines of its true limits.

    Nature has a bigger paint palette to "select" from than any being.

    Therefore natural selection will result in a more complete and thus more perfect being.

    Do you agree or disagree? Why not why not?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  2. . : tale_wind Ice to see you!

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    Why can't natural selection have been designed to occur?
     
  3. Makaze Some kind of mercenary

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    Because natural selection would first have to have selected the variables that allowed the designer to exist. The designer themselves must be crafted by the nature of the universe. In other words, natural selection exists by definition at every level of existence.

    Once the designer exists, the designer cannot know that they are aware of all that exists; all they know is that they are aware of what they can be aware of. They cannot tell the difference between all knowledge and their own capacity for it. Therefore any sub-system of natural selection that the designer creates has a flaw. It may be more limited than the overarching system that created the designer in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2014
  4. Styx That's me inside your head.

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    I agree with Makaze and won't re-iterate what he already said.

    In addition, a designer needs both a mechanism and a purpose while natural selection only requires the former. I don't know whether this falls under "better" or "more likely" but either way, I think it's always better to have only one huge question to answer.

    What's the difference between a designer saying "And now I will let everything go its natural way..." and actually letting everything go its natural way? In other words; what is there to design?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2014
  5. Xiosoranox Moogle Assistant

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    Interesting point, but doesn't that beg the question? On what grounds must the designer already be crafted? And if the designer already exists and created the design, why would they not be aware of all that exists. It's like when people say the universe created itself, i.e. self-caused. To be self caused you have to exist before the effect. I'd have to go with design in this case, unless I'm missing something important.