I think Riku is truly the character that got the short end of the stick out of all of the games. Well, CoM actually gave him some highlight time, but it's clear in the other games he totally gets overlooked, and he also doesn't even get a stupid action figure as Axel, Roxas, Sora and Kairi did. It is kind of annoying that the most intelligent and adaptable character in KH gets nothing. However, back on track...I like Sora even if he's kind of childish. I thought Roxas was okay but obviously not as cool as others think, but I can see Sora's flaws too, beyond just being childish. He tends to be very over-protective of girls for some reason, which gets him into trouble, and he is not -dumb- but he sure is not perceptive either. He fits his element of 'sky' well, and Kairi and Riku fit their elements well too. I do agree with what Gritz said about optimistic, but at the same time I did see points where Sora was angry or he was sad and it was his friends that cheered him up. Sora really does seem to be the one that gains 'power' from his friends and also motivates them. I don't know if I buy into the KH deal of he's a 'great leader' as I would tend to think Riku was better at it and if he hadn't become forced to be a loner, he was the candidate that had the most potential. In the Japanese version he is a bit more expressive, but I can see more range in him. Kairi, however, I like her, but at the same time I do agree with Gritz here that she's a Mary Sue. She was the giggly bubbly girl that supposedly had the affections of the two boys, and it seemed Riku though was pulling out of it and even encouraging Sora to ask her out, even if playfully. Kairi in KH was pretty dull and I also agree that instead of making her personality more interesting, she just ended up with more funky powers of Light. In KH2 they gave her more of a stronger demeanor and she didn't just let Sora convince her to do nothing again and stay behind. That was a step up, but it's obvious she's going to have to train and get rid of the very girly way she prances and fights if she's going to be any assistance to Sora and Riku at all other than having her Light powers. Square has a serious problem with making girls that are so soft and delicate they end up always being the goodie-two-shoes healer White Mage sorts, and though sometimes it's cool, when all the time it goes on, it gets boring. I can't even blame Disney all the way for Kairi's Mary Sue deal. I think it's a combo of both Disney and Square. I have hopes in KH3 that Kairi will do more and I also hope to see Riku not get shafted yet for a 3rd game and to actually get to show more potential than he had. He's not a character that should be forced to ride on Sora's coat tails. However, saying that, I also still do like Sora and hope he changes and grows up more and Kairi also grows up more and we see the next game come out where they all 3 are stronger and stand together better. Also, I have to agree with Gritz that it gets annoying when -some- of the yaoi fans hate Kairi simply because she's supposedly in the way of a SoraxRiku pairing that would probably never happen even if Kairi were not around. Neither Sora or Riku appeared gay to me in the least. They were friends.
You do realize that Sora, Riku and DiZ etc did not destroy the Castle Oblivion and that Xemnas could just have gone back there anyway, right? The only thing that they did was DiZ and Riku took Namine and Sora with them so that Sora could be safe. They all knew it would not be safe there to remain. Also, Vexen said they didn't need Sora anymore, and it was a direct reference to Roxas, though shielded and Axel slew him before he could say 'why' they didn't need him. Marluxia's plot was to assassinate Xemnas, but Vexen was also doing things. Vexen was also plotting things and there was nothing showing that Lexaeus, who tried to get Riku to turn to Darkness, and Zexion who tried to destroy Riku after as well, were not working for the Org still and held the ideals. Zexion even tells Vexen in an FM flashback that he did -not- want involved in investigating Xemnas or to get in any schemes and Vexen mocked him for it. You keep using Demyx as a reason, and yet nearly everyone says the way Sora treated Demyx was either out of line or darn near close. However, again, where did Sora do anything to anyone else? Yes, he egged on Demyx and everyone pretty well sees it, but he had his reasons at that point. One of the adorable wonderful things about KH is that the characters -make mistakes- and are not infallible. Sora made a few mistakes in KH too, and so did Riku. They aren't perfect, but the characters all try their best to deal with what is thrown at them. This still in no way proves Sora is some sort of murderer and went out of his way to assassinate the Nobodies.
The manga are okay but I can't say I liked them as overwhelmingly as some people here did. I thought they were extremely childish and though some of the humor in them was very slapstick and funny, other parts were so cheesy it made me wince. There are some additions to the manga that aren't in the game, but most of it is just for extra humor or descriptions and the battles are pretty short in comparison. I don't really consider them to be so 'canon' to the actual games as sometimes they deviate in ways that make them appropriate for anyone to read or just for the sake of taking the story in a different direction. However, they are cheap books so I'd say even though I didn't think they were the greatest, they were worth the money and will give you some chuckles. I think the first KH Manga off the first game was the best as it stuck mostly with the story and it does show you some scenes that were just loosely described in the game a bit better. After that they kind of deviate more but if you like that sort of thing, it's cool.
Hmm...Kingdom Hearts was founded on the concepts of both Disney and Final Fantasy. It would seem ridiculous to me to take out the Disney concepts within as that would make it a totally different game series. I can see the desire to tone down some of the Disney but in the end, I think if people look hard enough they can see the grisly undertones that the Disney tries to tone down. Kingdom Hearts has some very serious elements in it that for a young kid, this will most likely be missed. For an older teen or adult, if you mentally strip away the Disney and look at the base story, it's very complex, deep and meaningful. You can take a variety of things from the underlying plot. Nomura, to me, was a genius when doing this because the stories of all 3 games would make the rating a lot higher than it is if the Disney was stripped away. So my opinion on it is to leave the Disney, and yeah, at times the cuteness gets to people, including me, but at the same time, those of us who are more 'serious' and all can indeed look and find the theme under the cuteness. I do hope he continues to do stories like this if Kingdom Hearts goes beyond a KH3 game because it does make it suitable for many ages and people can take what they want from the games. I think it would be a lot more morbid and they'd have no choice but to make the games M if they removed the Disney and well, even though at times I twitch by the adorable things that happen, it also makes the game a bit more light hearted and funny too.
I'm debating if I'll buy these or not. I really don't like most TCGs and find them very boring but sometimes I get the cards just to admire the artwork. Some people who have them have already told me the game isn't that good, and for the price, I'm not sure it's worth it, but...still deciding of course.
In the end, I wish they'd have let you play as Riku instead for some of the game. Playing as Roxas was fun, but it would have been nice later to also switch to playing Riku at some point to understand his side of the story too. Poor Riku seems to always get screwed out of game time.
We had another question like this somewhere. But I do think it was probably Roxas in Org attire to show to Roxas what he once was; the darker side of him that had been removed by Namine's powers. I did at first think it might be Riku, because he looked taller and more built than Roxas, but the being is at an angle that could just make him appear so since his back is turned and Roxas is before him quite a few feet away. It also really made little sense for Riku to be there in his dream sequence, and Riku was not in that part of Sora's sequence he went through when he fought the Darkside. As others mentioned, instead, Sora saw his shadow grow and spread out and it became the Darkside. The same happened with the Nobody so I would have to say it is most likely Roxas.
Demyx wasn't trying to befriend Sora... Where do you get that from? He was trying to get Roxas to come back and do the work for the Org. Sora was rude there when Demyx acted like he was going to chicken out, but really that is the ONLY time Sora instigated anything and after experiencing Xaldin's coldness and other things, and learning about the Org and some of their schemes, I can't say many people would be that different. However, where do you get the idea Luxord, Xigbar and Saix weren't doing things wrong? You still fail to see that they had been planning on and carried out parts of these plans for a long time. Demyx was -not- important to the Org. He was just a gopher. Where do you even see that he was given any task that really had a need? The Org were setting up Sora all along once Roxas ran off and wasn't going to do what he was told. Vexen even hinted on that in CoM which is a whole year earlier, that they did not -need- Sora anymore. The Org factions both tried to take out Sora and Riku once they realized they could not be controlled so the purpose of having either was a threat. Roxas was a solution and Roxas ran away. They planned on using Sora from the beginning, but Roxas showing up changed that, hence the name 'Key of Destiny'. Sora only -instigated- Demyx. There is no other person he did a thing to that wasn't what any other person would have in his shoes because he -had to-. If he hated Nobodies so much he would never have tried to work with Axel and would have attacked him instead of hearing him out at all; especially after Axel kidnapped Kairi. Really, try to back this stuff up because the only thing that happened after Demyx's death were schemes coming to fruition and being revealed for the 2nd part of the story. None of the Org ever said at all in any part of the story that they were mad or threatened or reacting because of Demyx's death. They just kept on trucking with their plans.
Very cool images and thanks for the translations Xaldin. You always find such great things that keep us updated! Also, thanks Libregkd for the translations clarified more. These games are looking so interesting.
I do hear what you are saying, but we have to -agree- to such a thing. I believe attempting such a thing could cause a serious revolt. Many people would not just sit through such a scheme as implanting V chips in us. I know I would refuse and leave this country if that became the case if nothing else worked that I tried. I would be entirely disheartened at how crappy things had gotten. I do believe we need to keep an eye on things and such and make people aware that such things -can- happen but I am also under the impression that just because so many things have a possibility of happening doesn't mean they -will- happen. That's all I mean, truly.
I voted for Sora. Roxas would have never completed anything and was rather selfish to me. He'd just have been on the run, dodging issues and being all "I'm in control of me!" and emoing. Roxas only had two Keyblades any way cuz of Sora's connection to Kairi and Riku and the Keyblades emphasized that. There's nothing at all saying Sora and Riku could not double-wield either. Roxas was cool, but he's not Sora.
It isn't wrong they wanted their Hearts back but the top ones of the Org were the ones who started the existence of the Nobodies in the first place by going to Darkness willingly. Their deeds cumulative are what is wrong, not their desires to be whole which probably would be rather instinctive. Let's use another type of example here to explain. There's this group of people that come together because they all need livers to survive. They make their own little mafia group and go out and look for healthy candidates with livers, then one by one they murder them and do a procedure of removing the people's livers so they can live. Is this wrong? They need livers to survive, but don't try to look for any other method such as waiting for willing organ donors, or checking out what medications there are that might be available otherwise and help them. Now some cops find the scenes of the mutilated bodies and investigate that in each case a liver is carefully removed and then they find out the storage area for the livers as these people who want to live so badly put them in a big freezer to await surgery. These people can't be absolutely ensured that they will survive but they take a leap of faith to say sure they will. The cops are given riddles all along the way, toyed with and friends are messed with in attempts to get their livers. The cops are taunted along the way as they try to find the culprits and what they are really up to. Families and all are in distress and trying to defend against these killers that seem relentless in their task and without remorse for their deeds. It seems like a cult deal and all. As the cops get nearer to the killers, they try to stop them but it's no use. They have to kill them one at a time because the killers will not stop at all with their goals of becoming whole and healthy again. The cops also find out that there are some members who don't obviously agree with the policy. Some decide to rebel to become the new leaders of this underground cult and two of the cops are played with pretty badly while there is a girl with a bad liver that is merely a prisoner and used because she can woo the cops and disorient them. Another one of the people aids the cops somewhat but clearly has his own motives and the cops, though one is injured, both escape just barely after being trapped for a time. Then they find out that two of the members obviously didn't agree with things, but their motives were more pure than the rest of the order. They try to help and set things right so the cops can stop the killers. This is the same sort of scenario but made more -real- as it could be something morbidly possible in our world. Surely, no one at first would want the killers to be dying, but when they become killers, how are they -justified- in their acts? This is how the Organization appears to me. It's not the deal that they should not want Hearts. The wrong thing here is the method in which they went about to get the Hearts that made them have to be stopped. KH is not just a kiddy game and the plot does go into some serious things even if Disney covers it up nice to make it not seem to. It has some mature issues in it and this is one.
http://www.kh-vids.net/showthread.php?t=32662 - the Journal link there, down in it has a section devoted to Sephiroth in KH2, so see if that helps you at all. Good luck.
There is debate about whether the Keyblade Riku gave to Kairi is even more than a temporary pseudo-Keyblade, though it does have a Keychain, so it may be possible. He may have either given it to her after finding it somewhere, or he made it which could have been something he learned to do from his time spent stuck with Xehanort's Heartless. Either way though, there's nothing to say Namine, who was considered to be 'less' than other Nobodies, as in she was a shroud even to them, would get a Keyblade just because Kairi would have one. Kairi did not have a Keyblade before Riku handed her the one he had to give. Therefore, since Namine wasn't even -in- Kairi at the time, how would she evolve herself to get one? Another point with this is that Roxas is no ordinary Nobody and yeah, Namine was unique, but Roxas actually may be a part of Ven who was also a Keyblade Wielder, and may have retained some of his Heart. Axel even asks him if he thought he had a Heart or not and does make a comparison to Sora in an empathic sort of way to relate them. Roxas was perhaps the most complete Nobody other than Xemnas, and maybe even more so because he still kept the Keyblade and to do so he had to have a piece of his Heart. The Keyblade is said to go to someone with a Heart. Seems to be a requirement, so I'm betting he had some portion, even if he lost quite a bit. The only way Roxas got screwed was because Sora was only a Heartless for a very temporary time and then Kairi healed him so Roxas did not have memories to even understand why he was named as he was. It might be possible that Namine could in the future (if she ever came back) use the Keyblade connected to Kairi, but also not possible if she returns as she was. I wouldn't write it off in a future game, and I do think the Keyblade Riku gave her may just be a permanent thing, but I'm also confused as to why, if it was, she didn't have it drawn when they went to open the door and all. She didn't have the thing at all after the scene of her bopping the Heartless on the head and all. I suppose in KH3 we will see if it was a temporary creation by Riku or not. It's pretty vague right now.
Axel was loyal to the Org to a point. Everyone, including the other Org members in KH2 totally knew Axel as a wild card and that he could go any way he wanted and he did so. Axel helping out Sora by freeing Namine was obviously -his- choice alone. Also note that Axel went through great pains to ensure -no- Org member but himself survived so that there was no one to refute his story that he would tell Xemnas later when he woke up. Axel is not 'the Org' and he is the -only- person to -help- Sora at all, and it was clear his motives were his own. Also, the Org had -captured- Namine and she was a prisoner to them and Xemnas did know about there seems to be something of a mention in KH2:FM. Surely freeing her went against their orders even if Marluxia was using her at the time. In all technicality, Marluxia -was- placed in charge of the Castle Oblivion and the strife that was going on was because both Marluxia and Vexen were attempting to do things. However, Lexaeus and Zexion really were not so involved in the coup stuff and still were doing things wrong. In case you didn't notice the plot point of what Axel was doing, Axel only went after Marluxia because Marluxia ordered him to 'kill the traitors to the Organization'. He went and killed Vexen under that order but then came back for Marluxia to declare he was the true traitor. Axel uncovered Marluxia's schemes through suspicion and then Larxene assuming he knew stuff and was in on it. Axel also probably -knew- that Roxas was Sora's Nobody. He was protecting Roxas when Vexen nearly gave out the information to Sora about Roxas saying they didn't need Sora after all. The Org -did- want to use Sora all along but then Roxas came into being and they didn't have to. Keep in mind, CoM is only about 3 weeks after KH so Roxas would have been discovered not too long before. Axel even went out of his way to get rid of the Riku Replica so that no traces of what had happened at the Castle Oblivion would be able to be used against him. In the end, Axel was utterly a wild card and out for his own survival and he was not just there working for 'the Org'. It's probable that Xemnas might have put him there to deal with traitors but surely Xemnas did not just assume the whole group there were all traitors and they definitely did not know that Sora and Riku were just going to show up there. If Axel was so worried about it, he probably could have gotten some assistance from the other Org members who weren't at the castle, other than Xemnas who was asleep. In the end, the Org did not help Sora at all and they had no reasons to. Axel helped Sora and freed Namine. None of the others were out to aid Sora at all in CoM. They were using him and manipulating him and then when they realized both he and Riku were not cooperating with plans, they tried to kill them. End of story. Okay, well Sora wasn't out determining they -deserved- to die. He was saving his friends and others from their schemes. Sora even tried to get the two to stop and neither would bend. He obviously had to make a choice. It's not a matter of deserving to die or not. They -had- to die to save others. It's that simple. Saix was worse than Xaldin. He was an emotional sadist, tormenting people who had Hearts because he remembered what it was like to have one. He was cold, calculating, and probably just as bad as Xemnas in all counts. I'm not sure how anyone could think Saix was a 'good guy' before Demyx's situation. He was the biggest manipulator in the whole game other than Xemnas himself. He even says to Xemnas at the end that there would be 'no more games' or something to that equivalent and then things went uglier at the TWTNW. He also lied about Riku, kidnapped Kairi (of course after Axel did) and was playing a game trying to dispute what Axel had said about the Org set up. He was never a nice guy. Xigbar was working at the LoD area and it is purely obvious he had to be doing things there for a while. After all, he corrupted a dragon there and also was going to try to do something at the palace there but Riku locked him outside. Xigbar seemed to care for members of the Org and wanted Roxas to come back, but other than that, he was #2 of the Org and just as involved in things. He may have been redeemable but not with Xemnas running things. In his case, he had to be dealt with simply because he was on the wrong side and that happens in war, you know. He chose to fight, he made his decision. Sora even reacted rather emotionally after the fight when he walked out shaking his head sadly and he was confused. I don't see he was over joyous there. You do not KNOW that they were not doing things for a long time. They were scheming these things for 10 years. It is pretty obvious Luxord had to be doing things for some time and he wasn't just sent out after Demyx's death. You seem to think they so cared about Demyx who was not that important at all to them. If anything, Xaldin would be more of a power to them and influence because he could be dastardly. Demyx was running small time duties such as retrieving the Olympia Stone and fighting Sora because they wanted to get him to work for them willingly, believing Roxas would. Roxas 'ran away' so obviously it wasn't happening even if Roxas was at all active. Demyx was -not that useful- to the Org. There is no turning point just because he died. He even kept saying things like 'they sent the wrong guy' etc. He was following orders but he was not so devoted in it, obviously as others like Xaldin and Saix were. As for Atlantica and the Pride Lands...why would they want to attack there? They aren't aquatic beings and they aren't going to shape shift into animals. It would make no sense to bother with those regions. You spend a lot of the game fighting Maleficent and Pete who have their own agenda to build up their dark council and all but you also spend a fair amount of time through the whole game gathering information about the Organization too and the Xaldin fight was pretty early on too, as well as having to deal with Demyx in Olympus Coliseum. Pete and Maleficent are -not- the only ones putting Heartless on worlds and that was more than shown. Even if they were doing a lot of things (not much because they were really pathetic and thwarted by the Org enough too) in the end it did not matter who put the Heartless where. The Org wanted to -use Sora- in the first place and Roxas was a convenience. It was all planned, and the Heartless being out there meant that Xemnas's plans would go right because the Keyblade Master would -naturally- have to stop the Heartless. Being what he is means that if Heartless are on worlds that Sora goes to, the Heartless are always drawn to the Keyblade. Therefore, if he kills them after drawing them out in droves he is doing exactly what the Org wanted. Also, that big pseudo-Kingdom Hearts in the sky there wasn't just a decoration, ya know. Many lives had already been lost to the Heartless and all. The plans of the Org were set in motion once they knew a Keyblade Master once again existed. Another point is this, those Heartless created by the Org all had Heartless emblems. There are also -new- Heartless that were seen that were emblem Heartless. It seems pretty obvious to me that the Org were out making some new Emblem Heartless possibly even with Xehanort's old machine, but either way they all had Heartless emblems which are signature to being created and not purebloods. Why would the Org put those symbols on them? Why also didn't they just use Heartless from the first game? They obviously wanted to use their own and they made the big ones at least which was proven. Beast's castle had the big monstrosity in the ball room and the dungeon door, Luxord and the gold collecting one, Xigbar and the dragon one. The Org got away with what it did because it remained in hiding for years scheming and planning. They knew all about nearly everyone. They had their master plan. So in the end, I don't see how you assume Demyx was -that- important at all in the scheme of things that they'd all drop their deals and go 'oh now it's oOOon'. It was 'on' before Sora, Riku and Kairi ever knew of the Organization. It may have been 'on' 9 years before Kingdom Hearts when Xehanort and his companions gave themselves to Darkness. I'm not seeing they'd really give a care about Demyx who just seemed to be the gopher Org member with no real intellectual factor (meaning he wasn't one of the brains organizing things, not that he was stupid or anything), he was low in number rank, and was not one of the originals. Things only got more deadly after that point simply because Riku and Sora were figuring out more and King Mickey was also uncovering a lot of things to expose the Org's intentions. I'd even gather to say that King Mickey's and Riku's background deeds may have been what really had the Org going nuts at points. They were the ones, after all, that tried to keep Sora on a straight line, even when things got ugly.
Alish moved through Estavel, having finished the apple he was munching on. Things seemed relatively quiet except for an incident that appeared to be drawing people to it. He went over to check on a cart that had overturned and people had now been dispersing. He was late to the scene. There were people ranting about some reckless driver who had fled the scene but no one had really caught a glimpse of the person; just a vague description of simple attire that could match about 90% of the people of the region. Having got some information though, Alish gave a nod to the people there and set off to wandering in search of the person. He had little doubt he was not going to find this person but it did not hurt to look for suspicious people around that might be hiding now in alleys or trying to blend in. He could have hopes the person was not a very good con artist but as he moved about the streets searching, the path was definitely cold. Had someone done this maliciously or was it an accident and the person freaked out, trying to get away from the scene in shock? He supposed later that he'd make a report on the situation, but for now he was not going to worry too much unless such things became a habit. Alish then wandered onward, heading for Mahura. Perhaps the person might be hiding out, but if he was not, there was always something going on there to search for. As he pressed on, entering the darker area that most people wanted to not claim existed, a man brushed up against him, wearing a tattered coat with patches on it, and something was pressed into Alish's hand, which was a crumpled up paper. He almost went after the man but instead walked on as if nothing happened until he could find a side alley. There he opened the paper, reading the short but concise words on the page. The contents read "I have watched you and if you are the Knight you say you are, perhaps you will aid in the cause to set things straight. We will speak soon. Sincerely Laryth Valtas". "...Who ..is this.." Alish murmured softly so that no one could probably audibly make out his words. He crumpled the paper back up and put it in his pocket. This day seemed to grow more peculiar as it went on. He then resumed to walking down the main street, going into the town. He had someone to visit here whom he had not seen for a good year, and it was now time for answers. His old mentor must be up to something. He might know why this letter was sent. Either way, Alish had plans to go see the old man just to know if the guy was still even alive. He had not had word from him and even though Alish had gone by his place a few times, he had not wanted to visit him for worries he was up to something and Alish would draw attention to him. Normally, he would not want to compromise the old man, but he wanted to now say what his progress was and to show he had become what he had set out to be. However, speaking with the man that his mentor had pressed him to do had been impossible with the way the cities were divided. It was just not an easy task to get to see someone as high and mighty when he served in another district that was not getting along with Estavel. Maybe this letter had been a prompting, but he could not be sure. He would continue on now moving to back streets. Soon he would reach his destination.
Riku Replica had a Replica also of Soul Eater. That's the best way to look at it at this point. Soul Eater is something attached to Riku, similar to how the Keyblade is linked to Sora. So if Riku Replica was an exact Replica of Riku, the Soul Eater tied to Riku also must have been duplicated in Repliku.
...What? The Org didn't help Sora at all in CoM. Marluxia and Vexen were trying to use Riku and Sora to gain control of the Org. They tormented them and then when neither would cave in, they tried to kill them. There was no one really helping them but Namine, after Axel freed her. Where in the whole story did you think they were ever helping Sora at all? I am really kind of confused and am interested to hear the thought to that.
It seems like he is reacting to you nervously and not sure what to do about things. You might just want to try asking him direct ...something along the lines of: "If I offended you, would you tell me what I have done to fix things? You are a good friend to me and I am at a loss here but if I did something, at least tell me when you can so I can try to fix it." If the person doesn't respond then, at least he knows you -do- care to remedy things. It could be he doesn't like your take of this girl he obviously seems to think is fine while you see the danger signs. Infatuation or Obsession can be a thing that comes between friends as a person is so obsessed with someone else that they just won't adhere other people's warnings. Sometimes people need to learn about the dangers of obsession the hard way and if that is his problem with you, I guess you have to do what all friends sometimes have to and that is to stand back and wait for when the ball drops. It's 'tough love' but sometimes that's how it works. If you've voiced your opinion about her and he's still gung ho to do his thing, there's nothing else you can do but be his friend and watch out for him from the sidelines, and be there when it all goes down hill. His choices are his own. I hope things work out for you guys and he'll be okay. Maybe he will listen to you about her but if not, that's really all I can suggest.
Ah, well my apologies for taking it out of context. =:) The only way though I see that 'science' can be taken as destroying things is that it makes you question religion which in many cases is a narty thing to do. Then again, I love science and studying stuff so I am on one side of the coin nearly entirely. I don't -mind- people believing in things etc, but the threats have always come from Organized Religion. I have yet to see where a threat was made truly by Science to do anything other than make people question things and have a more open mind. No one has died yet from Science saying 'open your mind and get away from religion or we kill you'. It has always been religion that condemned scientists even of their own ilk. As for the statement that Science and Religion can never get along...I do ponder that. Surely for some things, you are absolutely right and I would guess it depends on what level of 'religious' the person is. If they are fundamentalists, science is obviously not their friend. However, a moderate believer who has an open mind I believe could be both into science and religion and probably be fine. After all, I do know quite a few professors in college that are Christian or Islamic etc and yet are also in the science fields. They aren't Creationists either (because I'd make fun of them...yes..that is the reason.) so I do think it can work when people are willing to face some facts that the Bible and other such books can't be taken wholeheartedly and that these books were in fact written by -men- in a time of little science. However, if people want to take the Bible literally and believe that the moon casts its own glow...well, yes, it can never work. Which brings up another point of a worry for me I suppose. If the education system was ever canceled out as some people want to abolish it...then states would make their own education systems more and well, that education could differ greatly. Already people in some areas try to force Creationism in schools and try to abolish Evolution and many other science things which takes out Geology, Biology and Chemistry to say the least. I truly do worry that some states, as backwater as they are in beliefs, will just make kids dumb. They already have kids walk out of classes if they believe it is against their religions. Imagine if they have the power to structure education how they want? Colleges will also suffer because some kids simply won't be on par with others depending on where they are from. It could lead us to a lot of problems and I'm not liking it.
