You actually don't need dodger to kill LaDD with Gallis. As long as you don't chain anything, LaDD will stop your opponent from using counter traps against your effects.
Because you use dark hole + soul take on quasar and I chain inter-dimensional matter transporter. I get quasar back in the end phase, I have four face-downs you have hand four. Edit: Also, you need to summon an E-Hero to use poly. Even if you do without it being negated, you have nothing banished to boost Shining, you only have three (or four via stratos) hand left, and I still have five face-downs.
With some assistance from Brook.. I present to you the perfect counter to LaDD in non-random.. First summon dodger, then.. Spoiler
Continuous effects don't activate :P
My main deck is so pro, it can negate Super Poly :P
.. What are you even saying? You're saying this deck is good, I don't see why it's good. I try to point out the flaws I see, you say it's pointless to talk about it.. So I want to see how they actually work in practice. The only good way to see that is to duel against them. I don't expect to win, and I'm not saying "If I win they're awful, if you win they're awesome." I just want to see how they work >.>
I'd like to duel them on DN if you have the time.
The funny thing is, I wasn't angry anymore when I was typing that post.[DOUBLEPOST=1364864122][/DOUBLEPOST] On second thought, do you run them?
If any mandatory effect of a card can't be done, like drawing for CD when Troll and Lock is active, you can't intentionally activate it. Morphing Jar activates whether you like it or not though, so it doesn't have that problem. If you could somehow chain Troll and Lock to CD, it would only stop the effect that caused you to draw. It's like BTH vs. Imperial Iron Wall. If you chain Wall to BTH, BTH still destroys, but can't banish because of Wall. BTH normally has to banish, so if Wall is already face-up you can't activate BTH because you can't banish. @Jaden: You're entirely missing the point. I understand what you've been trying to say this entire time, and in my post I explained why I thought that was silly and unnecessary, and why I thought there was nothing to forgive.
I can't convince my self to go to sleep, and I've gone and gotten annoyed at you.. Simply expressing displeasure is no way for anything positive to happen, so I'm going to try to post what I think and why right now, and then leave these topics behind. Firstly, Jaden. I don't dislike you. I don't particularly like you either. In the past, we've argued about many things but that is in the past. I believe that there is no reason to apologize for an argument. If you say something mean during an argument, it is helpful to apologize for that.. But unless you intentionally try to start the argument, the fault is shared between all members. I also do not believe that there is necessarily something wrong with an argument. As long as the subject is being dealt with logically, there is often something to be learned for both parties. If you say "Fine, if LaDD isn't broken, how would you beat LaDD with five face-downs" there are two things I can do. The first is find a way to beat it with generic cards, and the second is to try to prove that even if LaDD + 5 face-downs is unbeatable, LaDD isn't at fault. I will try my best to do both, and I don't think having that discussion is a bad thing. If I can't come up with good reasons for why LaDD isn't broken, I'm forced to agree with you.. But the good thing is if I can come up with reasons it isn't broken, and you examine them carefully you might learn things that render it not so broken, or you might be able to refute my arguments, in which case I learn more about the power of LaDD, and similar cards. Even if arguments are inherently bad.. It has been so long, and I see no evidence that anyone is holding a grudge.. When you keep apologizing for it, it makes it seem like you're stuck in the past and I really don't know what to do. When I said I didn't see anything to forgive, I meant that. I don't see anything wrong you have done that you need to be forgiven for, I don't see anyone who hasn't forgiven you for a wrong you may have done.. I just don't know why you're so upset that we aren't forgiving you. I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh.. I was kinda pissed at Rafa's post, and after being happy.. Sorry. Secondly, Brook. I have no idea why I hadn't thought this trough earlier.. but just replace CD with book of taiyou. Problem solved. Morphing is mandatory, so it will still force discard. Finally, since I don't have anything more I can do in the mean time.. Rafa. I honestly don't know what your problem is. First you make an opening play with E-Dragons that's ends with a hand of two, a rank 7, and LaDD. I say I can see multiple ways for Six Sams to beat the opening. You say So all I'm left with there is Rafa "E-Drags broken, look turn 1 LaDD" Me "Six Sams beat!" Rafa "That why not always LaDD! They so Broke! Accept it!" I post explaining my views on their weaknesses and end with "I haven't played against them, so maybe they're really good.. They just don't seem good to me." You then say 'Look at all these tournaments! They don't agree with you'. so I look at one, and Fire Star won, so I still don't know why you think they're so great.. You commented on Verz, and I had thought about the ophion counter earlier so I talked a little about that and you say "Congratulations, you discovered how verz is good against E Dragons" which I assume is sarcastically saying that it's not that hard to figure out.. So I say 'Well, if they're hard countered by Verz, they're going to become less popular because of Prophecy being so strong.' You say 'Right now they're popular and Prophecy is strong so your argument is invalid' which makes no sense because it doesn't disagree with me on anything, and affirms the two points I have just made.. I try to explain myself better, and then you say that you've never seen Verz beat E-Dragons.. Despite the fact that you're talking about them topping in the same tournament as E-Drags, and you've specifically said they were good against E-Drags >.> I say I don't see how they can win often against Verz, because looking at the one that was second place in the tournament I looked at, I only saw one counter.. And then you insult my deck, and imply that, by virtue of the fact that I use the deck I like, I am somehow awful at this game and can't understand anything about its meta.. You used to say that decks like Cloudians were pro.. And now you act like I'm stupid for using my Fables when they're strong enough that when I was at my peak power I could consistently beat meta decks on DN >.> I can't discern a single point you've made aside from "They're meta, accept it." and your stances seem to be contradictory. First you say "they're awesome because of LaDD" then you act like summoning LaDD is probably a bad move, and that's why some players don't use it.. Then you say Verz are good against E-Drags, then you say Verz never win against E-Drags. I just don't get what you're trying to say, and acting like I am somehow a horrible duelist that is not worth your time isn't going to make things any clearer, unless the point you're trying to prove is that you're an ***.
So "using a deck they like, rather than the meta" means "an awful duelist who doesn't understand the game"? I'm not going to continue this argument, nor acknowledge the rest of your post. I'm simply going to say that everything I said is based on looking at the cards, and looking at the second place deck of a tourney that you told me was won by E-Dragons that was not at all won by E-Dragons. If you want to say "No, ignore the tournaments where it's different, just look at other ones where it is the case" then I don't know what to say to you. @Jaden I have no idea what you're talking about, honestly. I'm not going to say I forgive you because I see nothing to forgive. Sorry, but now I'm in a bad mood and I was just happy from playing with brook.. If we don't say "Jaden we love you you're the best" that doesn't mean we're thinking "We hate you Jaden and wish you would leave the arena and die!" You're not the most important person in the lives of anyone here so we wont always talk about our feelings about you, and honestly when you're going "Everyone hates me!" I don't want to reply to you because I've tried this stupid argument too many times. You can be good. You chose not to be, whether consciously or not. We don't hate you. We don't hate Terra. We do think you're a good duelist. We don't think the arena would be better without you. I'm really not in the mood. @Brook never say that one deck can't beat another. It's simply not true. @Terra Thank you for not giving me much to complain about.. But we don't hate you. /logs off without posting what he wanted to.
Well, I'm not sure how they can win when they can't summon their good monsters and have a total of three cards with destruction effects in the entire deck.. But then I'm also not sure how many matches you've seen of Verz vs. E-Dragons, and I know that I've never seen E-Dragons beat verz, so..
You can't have more than three face-downs. One slot for Prohibit, one for CD. @Rafa decks that main Troll and virus aren't strong enough to be good on their own, and I did say Prophecy was the problem. If verz decks can beat E-Dragons about 50% of the time, based on who goes first, and E-Dragons have an even or unfavorable match up against Prophecy once Prophecy gets used to them, then E-Dragons wont top as much > wont be played as much > will top even less > ect. Simply because Prophecy wont have as much trouble against Verz, and thus will win more. For that to happen though, people need to start playing Verz more, seeing that it counters E-Dragons, and the initial popularity burst of E-Dragons to wear off.
I was actually going to suggest Troll & Lock be banned, simply to avoid abusing it turn one. Set morphing jar, play prohibit veiler, set two facedowns, book of taiyou, Troll & Lock, double summon > Rai-oh > BoM on morphing > set S/T > card destruction > neither player has a hand.[DOUBLEPOST=1364763131][/DOUBLEPOST]@Rafa, When one deck is hard countered by another deck that is good, it is never the top deck, so it gets less popular, so people don't need to worry about it murdering them as much. That means the only problem is Prophecy, which is going to be hit hard next list anyway.
I look on there at the most recent tournament and it was won by: Fire Star, with a few E-Dragons added in >.> Anyway, you mentioned Verz.. E-Dragons are so reliant on SSing level 7 monsters that Ophion and Crimson Blader shut them down hard. Looking at the second place, the only thing they can do is draw and use the discard effect of the big fire dragon, or in the case of Ophion, summon Pearl.. somehow, when their only SS comes from monster Reborn and Return from the Different Dimension. Added to that, even if they summon a rank 7 first, bahamut can steal it.[DOUBLEPOST=1364736211][/DOUBLEPOST] Okay.. First, I summon Dodger Dragon. Then I play raigeki and chain Chalice. You chain Forbidden Dress? chain BoM. You chain lance? chain Chalice. Continue until you have run out of face-downs, and my hand is empty. End turn. Now, you have LaDD with 2300 atk and I have a monster with 1900 atk. You have one card. You summon monster, attack attack, *5700 LP* I set monster, you summon monster *attack x3* I have ryko, LaDD negates *1400 LP* I summon Dodger, run over LaDD *7900 LP* you draw a card and kill me with it. So that takes you three turns to kill me. Now compare this to Quasar. Quasar can also do one negation per turn, which was all that happened in that game, will continue to have 4k atk, can attack twice, and can't hit your own stuff. Thus you will win the next turn. It is rather easy to see that Quasar is the stronger of the two, even without looking at its ability to summon Shooting Star. So why does 1 LaDD + 5 face-downs get LaDD a ban, but 1 Quasar, 1 Stardust, 1 Stardust assault, 4 face-downs is somehow supposed to be beatable? If you think you can beat one Quasar with five face-downs, be my guest. I'll even take summoning Quasar and setting three cards, hand 1, as my first turn. You can try to beat me.
Jaden "Non-random LaDD OP!" Me "Non-random Quasar better!" Rafa "Look, consistent turn one LaDD in Random!" Jaden "LaDD isn't a problem in Random, but is non-random!" Me "If no, why here?" Me "Why unlimited counter traps?" Jaden "Because no consistent turn one LaDD in Random! Also Counter Traps!" Jaden "Counter traps are unlimited because they aren't a problem!"[DOUBLEPOST=1364699314][/DOUBLEPOST]I should be going to sleep.. But in all seriousness, the only problem with LaDD is that he combos viciously with a counter trap back row, and a five card back row of counter traps + starlight has always been the problem with non-random.
Sigh.. I was saying "Here quasar is 10x better" Rafa said "There are broken first turns in the real game that you have to deal with with random cards" and really.. If turn one LaDD isn't an issue in random, it shouldn't be an issue in non-random.[DOUBLEPOST=1364698173][/DOUBLEPOST]Okay, question: Why aren't counter traps limited here? solemn warning at three, solemn judgment at three.. Of course we're going to have back row problems >.>
7 star sword seems a bit powerful with them, but.. The big dragons return in the end phase, means their only staying power is via rank 7 Xyzs. They only get their effect once per turn, and their SS is effect not condition, so banishing one with sword means that you can't summon another, except by a little dragon effect which is a -1, countering the +1 you got. you can only use one sword per turn, so with bad luck they can make very dead hands. They banish as a cost, so that hurts if they get negated. If you don't draw a big dragon and do draw sword, the only way you can use sword is by throwing a little dragon effect, making it a net even, and depleting resources.. If someone plays fissure you're screwed. I haven't played against them, so maybe they're really good.. They just don't seem good to me.
revine drop one means hand four, stream and a drop is hand two, means you only have one card left at the end of your combo. The tokens aren't dragons, so even if that's rejuv, that's only hand three at most. Looking at six samurai.. SS elder, normal kagemusha, activate any spell, synch Shi En, run over LaDD.. Or normal any samurai SS Kizan or Grand Master SS shien use a spell run over LaDD. Either way, they only lose one card to LaDD, and set up their field.
Problem: you don't draw Wyvern or LaDD 98% of duels, and even if you did when LaDD dies the monster it summons is just going to return to your hand before your turn starts. Yes, Judgment Day is OP. That has never been debated.
