The New Enemy For Kingdom Hearts After Xehanort Saga

I guess there is two possibilities why his heart hasn't come back
1) His heart was still incomplete, remember that at start Roxas was "broken" like a puppet, his relation with Axel that "mended his heart", If Ventus Heart had gone to Sora to be recovered it could not return to Ventus until that was done.. but obviously It wasn't with ventus because Roxas had it.
2) As Ventus body is sealed away at Castle Oblivion it isn't possible to get him back until that room is unlocked.


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@Ars Nova: They received various names:
"defenders of the light, servants of darkness, those who sought to reconcile the two, and those motivated by nothing more than lust for power." (Report IV)
seekers guardians, etc... the point is that their lust for the light is what gave birth to the darkness implied to be in their hearts, So if they could not wield it probably they were consumed and maybe they used some dark powers.

A good thing about Re:codded was the possibility to fight Sora's Heartless that even though was "Fake" , was a great (true?) Dark Keyblade wielder. I don't know even if Vanitas is "true" in that sense as his keyblade is probably of the realm of light just like Riku's way to the dawn.
Seekers/Servants.. I just hope to see people using the darkness with a keyblade! Maybe the pure blood heartless are the past keyblade wielders? How does they know to fear the keyblade?
The fight between Data Sora and his heartless made a Data X-blade? Questions, questions!

 

True...but was that because the staff didn't expect the game was going to get more than one sequel? Could the reason Xehanort wasn't show as earn simply due to the development of the games and not because Nomura was waiting?


But I would love to see a guild of Keyblade wielders go to war with Sora...or Sora and a group of Keyblade wielders go to war with bad Keyblade wielders. I want more key or key action.

 

I thought about that at the time that I posted that, but I honestly don't know because you can see that they clearly had a hypothetical "what if this does go places" sort of basic idea at the time of KH, and even after they saw that, yes, this is going places, they waited a long time to show us who was really behind it all.
But yes, it's entirely possible that they may do things differently now that they know KH will sell and that this will be a new story, but I'm just going by what has been done so far.


I would like that as well, but also that they each be their own distinct character, not different versions of the same character.

 

But those were general terms. And that very quote seems to imply that not everyone from the beginning times was rotten to the core. Every character in series canon can say there were nothing but foul hearts in the beginning until their face turns red, but the fact remains that in their time frame it's only hearsay. A legend. Besides, if nothing else, there are the kids to account for. Maybe some of them had Keyblades, too. The practice itself is far from a dark art; to assume so would be to put a particularly dreary spin on the mythos, which I don't see happening in a series even partially owned by Disney.

That and I have a feeling the terms Guardians of Light and Seekers of Darkness only became official through the works of Master Xehanort and Ansem the Wise, influential as they were. It sounds like a poetic description they gave of their ancestors that was turned into a mantle for a select few. So basically, both sides have existed in about equal shares since time immemorial. That said, it raises the question of why so fewer dark warriors are left now. Were they truly just consumed? Is the dark that self-destructive? Maybe these are the sorts of questions future KH games can answer.

First off: If anyone's true between Data Sora's Heartless and Vanitas, it's definitely the latter. Vanitas is very real; he was just born different. And I doubt his Keyblade is a phony, either. Assuming he conjured it himself, it's as dark as he is. And really, the only other explanation for how he got it is that Xehanort gave it to him, which makes it even more likely to be authentic.

Second, I doubt the pureblood Heartless are made of former Keyblade wielders - or at least not in the way you're thinking. Pureblood Heartless are darkness, in its purest form; and any Keyblade wielder who steeps themselves in darkness too long, or loses their heart in the battle against it, becomes a part of that collective. But the reason they fear the Keyblade is innate. It has the power to end them, permanently. Well... Light Keyblades do. Could a dark Keyblade accomplish the same?

It would seem that light and dark Keyblades have inverse abilities. Where a dark Keyblade - well, at least one of which we know - has the power to release a heart from a body, a light Keyblade has the power to purify the darkness that grips it, allowing it to return to its natural state. Depending on how you want to think of it, you could say dark Keyblades slay light, while light Keyblades slay darkness. But either way, I don't think it has anything to do with the wielder at any point. I think it's just a property of Keyblades and the things they kill.

Lastly, it seems that the final property of both light and dark is that, when they collide in sufficient quantities, they create a transcendent form of Keyblade: namely, the X-Blade. So we know that Sora in data form still has enough of each extreme to replicate that process - possibly a carryover from Ventus, knowing what we know. Beyond that, I don't think the clash between Data Sora and his Heartless has any significance. You'd probably still need a much larger-scale clash to generate the real deal.

 

But we know that the first users made their keyblade as a copy of the X-blade, to achieve the power of kingdom hearts, even if not taken by dark intents they aren't guilty less as well

As for "true" or "false" , I was getting to the fact that Vanitas has a keyblade that uses dark powers (like Riku , terra and Xehanort), but he was born in the realm of light, so his keyblade is "light based" even if used for darkness, Xehanort says that "dark keyblades" and "light ones" are equal, you can use it how you like it, the proof of this of course is Kingdom Key-D , Mickey seems able to do every light based attack with it.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are Dark keyblades, so there must be someone using them... So there must be "people" in the realm of darkness if they are heartless or not.. is not answered yet.

I think the realm of darkness needs to be better explained! If there is "dark keyblades" there must be "anti people" the inverse of the people that live in the realm of light.. if there is people in the realm in between and in the realm of light there is no reason to suspect there isn't in the darkness.

I disagree of what you are saying about Heartless, the pure blood heartless are simply heartless that were not made by Ansem(Xehanort) artificially in his lab, in a sense the emblems are more "pure darkness without will" them the pure blood heartless, as they are made from darkness harvest from the dark realm into "things" that became heartless, pure blood are people that lost their heart to darkness or to other heartless.
" Though they lack emotions, they do seem to have some intelligence. How to communicate with them?"

(ansem report 4)

The only "pure blood heartless" (by that what I meant is> "people" that naturally became heartless) are: Ansem , Sora, Scar! They are not emblems (even though Ansem uses its symbol as a token of his invention) , all of them kept their individuality, and are cleary the "dark side" of their one's persona and not from other's .

So by what we know now, we can only speculate that every pure blood heartless is the "dark version" of someone, not from the "colective of darkness".. in the ansem report was stated that they had inteligence as well, but could not be controlled by someone with a heart because they would prey on it, so he became a heartless himself to controll the other heartless.

 

Fair, but I only meant that to say that not all Keyblade wielders were dark users in the beginning.

How do we know that? Has anyone ever said that's a criterion? Besides, he's the pure malice of an individual; I can't see that having anything to do with the light, no matter where it originated.

I don't think that's how it works. The light and dark realms aren't equivalent; for one, it is ostensibly harmful for most people to traverse the dark realms, even if they are dark users or wield a dark Keyblade. Knowing they're not equivalent, nothing is to say that it's necessary or even typical for dark Keyblade wielders to come from the respective realm. Maybe they just spend time in it to forge their Keyblade, work up their dark resistance, so on and so forth. It would be somewhat the equivalent of physical training under harsh conditions, like on the lip of a volcano.

I don't think there necessarily must be "anti humans." And there is reason not to suspect people willingly inhabit the dark; as I said, it's a poisonous atmosphere. Not to mention, even those well-versed in the dark have no business there, because... well, it's kind of empty. The light world is ripe for conquest, and thus makes a juicier target for anyone sufficiently studied in the dark arts. That said, there may be dark users who prefer seclusion to expansion.

Perhaps it's not the dark realm that needs explained, so much as things that relate to it or appear to hail from it. However, the realm itself retains an air of mystery that I think is intentional and important to its function. It's unknown. It could be dangerous. It frightens the faint of heart. The mechanics of the Keyblades could always use a little more background, though.

But their manufacture is what makes them impure. They were created. Forced into the world through unnatural means. The pureblood Heartless naturally occur in the null space where an individual loses their heart to the darkness. They are, thus, made of pure darkness as filtered into a weakened heart. Being pure does not mean the purebloods are blank slates with no intelligence; it means they are naturally formed, organic. They are the originals. Whenever a heart anywhere in the many worlds succumbs to dark influences, it becomes a Heartless, no matter what; because that is the form the darkness takes in this plane. The only difference between purebloods and emblems is that someone creates the latter by artificially recreating the process. Emblems are lab-grown, purebloods are bred in the field.

Sora, Scar, and ASoD are all purebloods because when they fell to darkness, they were consumed by the pure, raw dark energy of the collective. The same thing happened to every pureblood; there is no difference, except that Scar and ASoD retained unique forms and intelligence, because the darkness was so strong within them to begin with. They are, in a way, the dark side of their untainted selves, but that dark side was brought out by the pure power of darkness, not simply by them turning. They had to open their hearts to be consumed.

Every Heartless is the dark side of their former self, emblem or not. Emblem Heartless don't just grow out of the ground; they're created in the same manner as a pureblood, but by a human's hand. From Ansem Report 2:

So the process is roughly the same, the difference is that somebody is toying with a person's heart when they become an emblem. It's still their dark side, but they weren't the ones to bring it out. So that's not what separates emblems and purebloods; what separates them is that, to form a pureblood, the darkness has to find a heart of its own accord. Thus they spring from the source. Creating an emblem is like adding darkness to that which already exists in the world.

E: Actually, now that I'm re-reading some things, I might have mixed up the origin of the Emblems. The reports from KHII seem to indicate in a one-off statement that Emblems are synthesized directly from Purebloods? But the basic skeleton of the argument here is intact; purebloods are born when a heart lets the darkness into it, they don't just spontaneously appear when somebody turns evil. The catalyst is the power of the dark realm, and the heart first has to be subsumed into this before it can become a Heartless. A better report to quote to get my point across would be Report 4 from the first Kingdom Hearts:

They "absorb" (or eat) a heart, and crap out a Heartless. Inelegant, but it gets the point across. They're more than just the worse halves of the people who were consumed. In that light, I would guess that Vanitas is what happens when someone's darker half spontaneously renounces its humanity. So the real anti-human here is the Unversed.

 

The thing is that the dark realm is dangerous to people because even the dark people that appear in KH all were born in the light world, so they weren't made to survive in the dark realm, if there is someone living in the dark realm it will be immune to its power obviously. There are Keyblades in the dark realm (we all know that) so there must be someone wielding them , I don't think they sit there waiting for people from the light side come and take them (like mickey did). So or we think that the most powerful heartless wield them(stronger hearts? Even if dark ones), or a third kind of dark realm's inhabitant.

We know that Riku's, Terra, (so probably Xehanort and Vanitas) , Keyblades are from the light, even when they use dark powers:"

Director's Secreat report p. 28; Tetsuya Nomura: "Riku's 'Way to the Dawn' and Kairi's Keyblade are naturally the same type of Keyblade as Sora's. However there is no particular explanation for the Soul Eater's transfer and occurrence, as well as Riku's handing it to Kairi."

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As for how we know that Light/Dark keyblades are the same, because we saw Mickey using a Dark keyblade with light powers, but also because nomura said so:
"Keyblades have 2 different constitutions, either from the Light side or the Dark side. This is merely the exterior key, the inner key can act from either side and its abilities won't change. "
(In the same link , part 2 about Keyblades).

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I can see the "world of Kingdom Hearts" functioning like a "Buddhist afterlife scenario".. there are 3 kinds of worlds : Light, dark, in-between. There are X numbers of hearts from all hearts that form Kingdom Hearts, some go to any of these worlds and take the form of their natives, a Heart can go "up" or "down" and never cease to exist, if it goes to the dark realm it will gain a form that survives there (heartless?) , the in-between worlds are the only ones friendly to Nobodies ,but normal people go there as well because "nobodies" doesn't count towards the balance of the worlds (as they have no hearts), light becomes darkness, darkness becomes light.. that is why there is always light in darkness and darkness in light.. the hearts keep changing like that evolving and changing .. maybe Kingdom Hearts is nirvana, or where "dead hearts" go to wait their rebirth?


---Also there is this comment about Vanitas:

"He has no control over the darkness in his heart. The Keyblade is not his to bear. He's an abomination beyond hope of salvation."
—Master Xehanort to Terra
So his keyblade is ventus probably.

 

...Good point. But we don't know how the D Key got there.

I don't think it follows that Xehanort and Vanitas's Keyblades are light. It'd seem awfully silly for the antagonist of the series to use a light Keyblade, even if he could channel his powers through either type. And if the Keyblade is an extension of the self, then the reason we've seen mostly light ones thus far is because we've seen mostly light wielders thus far; it stands to reason that Vanitas, a being of pure dark, would project a dark Keyblade.

Even so, it's explicitly stated in the reports that the Heartless consume the heart and thereafter a new Heartless is created. All evidence indicates that the heart never reaches Kingdom Hearts if it is consumed by the darkness. Kingdom Hearts may very well serve as a temporary haven for purified hearts, and the events of KHII would seem to support this; the Kingdom Hearts seen therein is made of the hearts Sora releases from the Heartless.

You're reading too much into the comment. It is much more likely from the context that Vanitas is not a proper wielder of the Keyblade, not that he doesn't have one of his own. He shouldn't have one, because he lacks control; but the darkness in his heart artificially buffs his ability to handle it. That says nothing of whether his Keyblade belongs to anyone but himself. Again, this only makes it more likely to me that Xehanort gave him one, similarly to how Riku gave Kairi one.

 

I vote having creatures or beings of light trying to completely eradicate the darkness, which is starting to upset the balance of the world. Kind of like the Shinigami and Quincy in Bleach.

 

So will former darkness villains become heroes or at least be sought for help due to this new enemy?

 

I hope they always keep heartless

 

They've had Darkness (heartless and sort of unversed), in-between (nobodies) and hell they've even had monsters that invade your dreams, so I say it's time there was an enemy based on the light. It's been said several times in the kingdom hearts series itself that you can't have one without the other, there needs to be a balance of light and dark, so maybe they should show that the light itself can be a problem as well, I guess.

 

The problem with having light as the monster is the fact that 'light' was symbolic of good and so making it evil contradicts that. Nothingness was justified as evil for their actions and heartless were darkness.

Having said that, I do agree, I would like a monster of the light. I also want a story line that shows that darkness itself isn't evil, it's what you do with it. Like Terra struggling with his dark powers, I always felt that they grew out of control because he was constantly told to suppress them but if he just let them grow naturally and just learned to control them like that then they wouldn't pose such a threat. I think it would be more interesting to turn the tables like that because I don't like the idea that it's the darkness that makes someone evil, I prefer it being an evil person is drawn to the darkness. It's hard to determine whether a story like that would work in the KH world but I still hope.

 

God I hope not. That's been done so much lately.