Mafia [MAFIA] Lovers Mafia [GAME OVER, MAFIA VICTORY]

Okay, Nova, you make some excellent points about Cal. I'll re-look at her stuff and see if I agree with you. (Memory-wise, I have to say I probably do, just want to be sure.)

In the meantime...

Thank you.

 

♥ CAN YOU FEEL THE LOVE? VOTE COUNT 7 ♥​

Karuta (2) - Korosu, Jiku Neon
tribbles (2) - Splodge, al215
Calxiyn (1) - Ars Nova
Jiku Neon (1) - Judge Sunrose
Mish (1) - Marushi
Saxima (1) - Karuta
Splodge (1) - Saxima

Not voting (4) - Calxiyn, Midnight Star, Mish, tribbles​

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to hammer.

Day 1 ends at 12 PM EST/EDT on July 31st. There are approximately 21 hours and 30 minutes remaining.

 

So I noticed in my logs that Calxiyn has also tried to bring Korosu under suspicion at times, firstly by saying Korosu was probably a Mafioso either working with me or shadowing me by voting for Karuta. She made it clear that she thought Korosu was most likely Mafia either way, and that she just wasn't sure about my innocence in that. In the same post, she also theorized that Korosu and Splodge were probably both Mafia as well, painting them as working together. Later, she's also the one who said that Korosu was acting defensive, moreso than Karuta. Like I said earlier, it might just be that I'm reading things differently, but I thought Karuta seemed decidedly more defensive than Korosu, so this also strikes me as odd.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it's also not likely for Cal and Korosu to be on the same team, though I might be wrong.

What does everyone think of this?

 

It's not set in stone either way. Could be Mafia picking on Town, Mafia distancing from Mafia, Town picking on Town by mistake, Town correctly picking on Mafia. Worth noting, but hard to call it without knowing more about the surrounding interactions.

 

Noted, thanks.

 

Guys I just want to emphasise that the day ends much earlier in the day than in the previous game. Day 1 ends on July 31st at 12:00 PM EST/EDT (that's 5pm for any fellow brits). I just don't want anyone to get caught out with the day ending earlier. If you can't post during the day tomorrow, tonight may be your last chance to get your thoughts and votes in.

Also I think I will ##Vote: Jiku Neon, I may remove this vote later but at the moment I just really want Jiku to post a bit more and give her reads on who she thinks is mafia or town. I don't even mind if they don't have reasoning with them or not.

 

Okay, Mid, what are your thoughts on both Nova's case against Cal, and my case against Mish?

 

♥ CAN YOU FEEL THE LOVE? VOTE COUNT 8 ♥​

Jiku Neon (2) - Judge Sunrose, Midnight Star
Karuta (2) - Korosu, Jiku Neon
tribbles (2) - Splodge, al215
Calxiyn (1) - Ars Nova
Mish (1) - Marushi
Saxima (1) - Karuta
Splodge (1) - Saxima

Not voting (3) - Calxiyn, Mish, tribbles​

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to hammer.

Day 1 ends at 12 PM EST/EDT on July 31st. There are approximately 20 hours remaining.

 

Hmm okay so Nova’s case against Cal, I can see where he is coming from and I think I mentioned earlier that I had some suspicions about Cal but I couldn’t put my finger on why. So I had also noticed that a lot of Cal’s arguments seem to revolve about people’s phrasing of things. That is actually a legitimate way of catching people out and one of the more common slip ups mafia can make. So there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that line of thought and criticising people on their word choices, however Nova’s argument seems to be that that is ALL she’s done. I’m not sure if that is true or if it is, if it was intentional. I can see it being an unintentional thing but then again my gut feeling was to be suspicious of her. I really should check through her posts. Also the not teammates bit kinda makes sense but we should be really careful with stuff like that, as saying stuff like mafia wouldn’t accuse their own teammates is WiFoM and is dangerous territory.


And your case on Mish…I’m going to need more time to think about.

 

@Marushi
1. I was willing to let Jiku slide at the time because I believed that she would come back with some really decisive evidence and I figured she'd be this game's Krowley. But I am starting to agree that she hasn't really been helpful today (still holding out hope that she's gonna make a comeback with a really useful post - or 2 or 3 - before the day is up). I think she may have signed up for something that she didn't have time for here. If she doesn't reach the 5 post minimum, will she be replaced at this stage @Makaze ? I'm neutral on Jiku.

2. About investigating groups rather than individuals - not sure I see what the problem with that is? Reading into how people communicate with each other, watching out for buddying, or bussing.. it's an effective way to find mafia that everyone uses.

3. Below is the post where I held up Tribbles and Jiku together which you mentioned. Since then, Jiku did post her data and did place a vote so I think I was right to let her slide for the time being. Like I said above, though, she needs to post more at this later stage. Tribbles did ring a bell for me because if she is town, I would expect to see her posting differently from how she played last game, being more involved etc. Someone said earlier (think it was Cal and Judge) that it's harder to build cases when you're mafia and as we have seen, Tribbles has yet to make any strong cases, aside from Jiku who is just a 'gut feeling'. Tribbles seems to be feeling under pressure.

4. Also quoted above is my explanation for not voting. I know it's totally unlike me to not have a vote placed at all yet. I wanted to vote for Splodge but I kinda missed my chance as he reached a number of votes that was deemed enough. Since you have removed your vote, I will now ##Vote: Splodge

;~~~~~; and i just lost an entire paragraph of writing after accidentally highlighting it and then typing something else aaaaaaaarghhhgsjbrfs oh well i will try to remember what i wrote while cursing myself

5. I did find Tribbles more suspicious than Al. After being prodded, Al was able to not only defend himself but also build a case on someone else. This is a pro-town move. Tribbles, on the other hand, has seemingly been incapable of doing this. Tribbles hasn't read anyone aside from Jiku - who, according to her, is only a gut read and hasn't been able to expand on this at all. I don't blame her since Jiku has barely posted but to me, pointing the finger at Jiku seems like the 'easy option'. As for Tribbles' relationship with Splodge, I found it odd that before her ninja post before mine, Tribbles had practically ignored Splodge, despite a lot of the conversation being on him yesterday. She did mention him once, when prompted for reads. She said that she didn't have any, but that the closest was Splodge but then dismissed it by saying that Splodge's posts were 'honest mistakes'. She didn't mention Splodge despite Splodge putting a vote on her. She didn't defend herself against him - or didn't need to. Remember that Splodge voted for Tribbles after misattributing one of her posts to Judge. He blamed Judge for something that Tribbles did and when that backfired on him, he voted for her.

(still so annoyed that i deleted all of that ^)


I agree that Midnight has improved since her last game. But you say that I am suspicious for not voting, but Midnight isn't? Now who's clearing one person and condemning the other.. How is Midnight not voting 'understandable'? People are quick to clear Midnight as always (I swear one of these days she's going to be mafia...! It's not happened yet, but let's not be too quick to align Midnight to town just because she always is lol). Pointedly, she hasn't created a log for this game - not that I blame her, I tried creating one myself for this game and gave up after about 4 pages.., but I just thought I'd make not of that.

I can see that there are a few people (Marushi and Nova being the most recent) who think that Al is mafia. But is there any evidence apart from gut reads or tone? I am open to hearing it and willing to believe he isn't town, but I want to be sure. I found his case against Tribbles to be pretty compelling and, after doing my own digging on her, I'm inclined to believe she is mafia. So on that basis, Al doesn't raise red flags for me right now.


##Vote: Extend Deadline (worth a shot lol). I have to leave in about 3 hours and I'm working all day tomorrow. I finish on the deadline. I am going to be of NO USE unless I can log in while I'm at work but that's not likely.

 

Grammatical errors aren't a terribly legitimate way of catching scum, except for very specific kinds (of which nobody's been guilty in this game). Sometimes people's brains are just wired differently. It's too WiFoM-y to build an entire case on, at any rate.

As for Jiku: I don't have a problem with a wagon forming on her, she definitely doesn't look better for avoiding us. But I personally want to focus on the Cal/Al/Splodge entanglement because I think we stand to glean more from each lynch. Plus there's a chance Jiku might be replaced/modkilled at this stage.

 

Yeah, I know it's really strange, I'm still yet to be mafia and this is the 4th game I've played on here. That said town is the majority so it is still reasonable.

But anyway, as for not making logs, after the last game I started to really doubt how useful they actually were. Also it got mentioned about someone voting just so it would appear on the log and deceive people. I don't want my logs to be used to help the mafia. Additionally nearly ever game I have played and done them, I've been ultimately suspected of hiding behind them (like Jiku is now). I did them previously as I wanted to be useful to the town despite my lack of skill at analysing posts. However since I was doubting their usefulness I figured this game, I would try not doing them and instead spend the time I would be doing them on attempting to make more reads instead. I'll see how it goes and if this is going to make me more useful to own or not.

Also I have actually voted now though I understand your confusion with why it was suspicious for one person but not for me. (Marushi had mentioned it about me before though). Also in this game sometimes you have to consider that person's normal behaviour, so what is suspicious for one person may be normal for another. I completely get where you're coming from though.

My thoughts have been kinda all over the place this post, did that make any sense?

 

Kay, first off, I want to say thanks for taking the time to build a decent defense for yourself. I can tell you spent a lot of time on it, so thanks.

A few things I'd like to note:

1. I'd like to clarify: I'm not saying that you shouldn't look at how people are treating eachother; watching for buddying, shadowing, etc. I'm saying that for you to pick up two people and only judge them based on each other is suspicious. Since you didn't address the post involving Al, here it is:

Actually, this proves that I was mistaken about this post. You weren't holding up Al and Tribbles together, you were holding up Al and Splodge together, and just segway'd into more pushing at Tribbles.

This isn't you holding two Players up and seeing if they buddy or shadow each other. This is you holding up two Players and saying "I think Al is town because Splodge doesn't have a great response, see, he and Tribbles are suspicious so we should stop talking about Al."

I might be reading too much into this, I'll admit. But that's what I mean about judging Players only on their relations to each other. You use the alleged guilt or innocence of one player as the sole piece of evidence to clear or condemn the other.

2. I see you vote for Splodge now. I'm not saying it's a bad move, but now I'm curious as to why you went through with it even after all the talk about Splodge maybe being town, and Judge's theory about Mafia bussing the Splodge vote, and also why you completely ignore Nova's case against Cal.

3. You mention again that you think it's suspicious against Tribbles that Splodge voted for her after realizing that he was wrong in thinking that what Tribbles had said was something Judge had said. I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is a strike against Tribbles? If anything, I find it another strike against Cal, since that's why Splodge was voting in the first place. What happened was Splodge voted for Judge for 'going against Cal,' and when Judge was like "That wasn't me," Splodge realized Tribbles was the one who had 'gone against' Cal, and immediately unvoted Judge and voted for Tribbles, for 'not being helpful enough' and for mainly 'going against Cal.' I actually find it even more suspicious that you're using this strange voting pattern as evidence against Tribbles, ignoring Cal completely.

4. You point out that I think it's suspicious for you not to vote, but not Midnight. I had hoped that I was clear: I do think it's a little suspicious that Mid hasn't voted yet, but it's part of her norm. She's indecisive and has the tendency to doubt herself, so she's always reluctant to vote. You, on the other hand, usually play harder than this, and have even said so in this game. You're a self-proclaimed hard player, so yes, I find it more suspicious for you to not vote than Midnight, who has a hard enough time actually saying whether or not she thinks someone is suspicious. As for her not making a log, she doesn't usually do that until day 2, right? Maybe late day 1, and she usually builds it a little bit at a time. Besides, some people change. I am making a log this time, which I haven't done before, because I'm trying to learn. Last time, Midnight was accused of hiding behind logs, so she might be trying out a different approach. The lack of a log doesn't strike me as suspicious. Not yet.

As for you asking for more evidence on Al, lol, I would have said so if I had any. XD

And Mid posts. XD See what she said? Yeah, that's why her not voting wasn't as suspicious as you not voting. XD

 

I'm just wondering a bit here about how relevant Midnight Star's previous alignments are. The only way that her chances of becoming mafia increase is if you look at a number of games; looking at one game specifically the chance is the same for everyone. It seems to me to be one of those posts that look like they're contributing, but they're really not, and they look to me to be in same vein as Jiku's statistics.

Speaking of Jiku, I think at this point we should all sort of give up on waiting for a response. If she hasn't contributed by now she's unlikely to at this point. Mish may be right, and she may come back later, but I think until that happens, or doesn't happen, we should put focus on other areas, such as Nova's new read on Cal and the rising suspicions on Tribbles. On that note, considering the day end time, I think its best if we do just focus on these aspects until the day is over.

As for Nova's read on Cal, I'm not sure. Wouldn't players focus on different aspects of play normally, and Cal happens to rely on grammar reads? The only thing that I can really think in counter to that is whether or not its a mafia slip or if it is a genuine mistake. As a whole though, I think that the read is interesting, and I'd love to see how its elaborated on.

@Mish Cal gave, what I thought anyway, a pretty solid read on Al's way of referring to town as "other", or even just slightly distancing himself from them, as a possible scum tell. I don't think it holds enough weight on its own, put its something else to throw in the melting pot. Personally, I can't really find anything else, but I haven't examined his posts in detial. I'll post again if I find anything interesting. Related to that, I find it interesting @Ars Nova that you're reading both Al and Cal as mafia. Do you think this is an example of Judge's proposed case of "mafia bandwagoning", or in this case, "bandwagon atempt"?

 

I'm not. In fact, I was quite clear that they are not aligned. But they are both scummy, so I don't mind either one being lynched. Cal is just my immediate pick. If she flips town, far as I'm concerned you and Al are locked in.

 

1. I know I didn't quote my post, but I tried to explain in point 5 why I didn't think Al was sus - because he has seemed to me to be more pro-town in his posts. So I don't agree that I have implied that Al is innocent because of what Splodge and Tribbles have done. I have made references in order to draw comparisons between behaviours.

2. Unless I'm missing something, I can't see much talk of Splodge possibly being town. Judge raised an interesting point that's for sure, but a few people have stated it's a bit of a WIFOM argument. There is/was a bandwagon on Splodge, but notice that it's all but dissipated as the day has gone on. Judge theorised that Splodge may be innocent but he and Tribbles are my strongest reads.. he also theorised that Splodge may actually be a mafia member who has 2 town players attached to him. I don't agree with this because surely they both would have said something? Not outright state their lover status but subtly come to Splodge's defense? Tribbles is the only one who did, but I don't believe that they are lovers because I doubt that someone would bus a lover, which is what I think Splodge did to Tribbles.

3. Admittedly, you may be onto something there re: Cal. I gut read Cal as town at the beginning so I may be guilty of overlooking her. I agree with Nova that she and Al aren't on the same team. Her argument about Al using 'town' in the '3rd person' is imo SUPER weak. In the post Cal quotes, Al says 'there are important town players'... okay, what was he supposed to say? 'There are important team mates'? In the same breath, he says that 'we came to a consensus as a town'. So he's not speaking with distance at all. Earlier on in the day, Cal called Al out for 'drawing a blank'. Since then, he has made more substantial posts but Cal is still on his case, talking about tone and writing style and whatnot, which I think doesn't hold as much weight. Though I admit I'm not good at seeing stuff like that..

What worries me about Cal is that Nova says that she and Splodge aren't on the same team. I will have to look through both of their posts again to see if I agree with this. I do recall that it was Cal that pointed out the 'lover(s)' gaffe that Splodge made, but that's all I can think of for the reason as to why they may be on the opposite team. As you say, Marushi, Splodge voted for Tribbles based on the fact that she attacked Cal, so I think that should be discussed more.

4. Got it.

 

1. Fair enough.

2. I was talking about all the people saying "He reminds me of Blaine," "I think he might just be town trying to figure out how to play," "I think his slip seems more like an innocent mistake, not a mafia tell," etc. That sort of talk.

3. I agree about Cal's case regarding Al's 'town speak' as really weak. I'd also like to point out that a lot of the stuff Cal pointed out about Al in her first big accusation against him was stuff that would all have been completely true about herself, prior to posting. Stuff like his absence, his not being sure what to do before the absence, etc. In her first case against Al, Cal described herself pretty well. Not really a hard tell, just something worthy of note.

 

Hmm. I don't see a huge similarity between Splodge and Blaine. Blaine was really aggressive and arrogant. But I agree that Splodge's slip up wasn't a mafia tell, it was the fact that he argued against peoples' perception of it (that he only had one lover) for seemingly no good reason(?) that made me initially begin to suspect him.


This is an official prod @Korosu who has been browsing this thread for.. hours now, I think. I'm waiting for an epic post that is going to blow us all away, but I'm hoping it'll be sooner rather than later as I have to go soon.

 

Oh, okay, cool, so I'm not the only one who thought that, then. XD

 

Posting to say that I have to leave now and most likely won't be back until after the deadline. Gutted that I'm going to miss 16 hours of game play. I hope nothing crazy happens while I'm gone 8|

(guess i'll have to wait til tomorrow to see Korosu's epic post)