358/2 Days Revisiting Xion

Discussion in 'Kingdom Hearts HD I.5 ReMIX' started by Ars Nova, May 1, 2014.

  1. Ars Nova Just a ghost.

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    I'm sure there are plenty of threads about Xion by now, but this one has a specific purpose: When Days came out, BbS and 3D didn't exist. And as we know, those games added a lot of people who were look-alikes of or otherwise linked to other characters, something Xion caught a lot of flak for originally.

    So here's my question: Has your opinion of Xion changed since then? Do you regard her more fondly, or do you dislike her even more now? Did you care that she was a copy before or was it her personality that turned you off to her?
     
  2. Llave Superless Moderator

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    I've always felt that a lot of people disliked her because she was a copy and a mary sue. Quite honestly, I enjoyed her personality, she had more emotions and feelings in her character than any other in 358/2 days. (Roxas and Axel seemed less responsive in general as opposed to kh2 etc.)

    But my opinion has not changed. Sure it sucks that she technically REALLY shouldn't exist (because nobodies shouldn't either yet they regard them as well.), but I think the time they gave her added enough personality into the whole franchise. She may be Sora's memories of Kairi, but those collected memories formed a whole other beautiful person in the process.
     
  3. Nowaki Destiny Islands Resident

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    I don't know why someone could hate Xion. She isn't as useless as some other characters ( I don't want to mention now). She's an important person for both Roxas and Axel as well as Riku and Sora and for the organization. Also, her personality isn't that kind of a helpless-girl but rather a strong character who wants to find out where she comes from. She's seeking answers, and she will find them. Also, she wants to protect her friends. The end of Days was just so painful.
    And my opinion hasn't changed through out the games after Days. The scene in DDD where Xion was involved, just brought back my memories of her and the pain I felt when beating her in days. I hope we get to see more of her if this is possible
     
  4. Ars Nova Just a ghost.

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    See, the only person who ever told us that is Ansem the Wise, and despite the name I don't see him as a reliable narrator. Simply put, he talked a lot of s██t. Not to mention he was in a dark place when he said most of it, given over to grief and anger at his own failings and driven by revenge and a misguided bid to "fix" his "mistakes." That's why 's little speech to in 3D hit me right in the gut; because, without hesitation, he validated them. He felt their pain and knew it was real, and not only did he extend his sympathy but he seemed ready to switch places. In light of that, I hope Roxas and Xion get more attention in KHIII.
     
  5. A Zebra Chaser

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    Not just Ansem the Wise, Xemnas. Off the top of my head, in the new Ansem Reprots in Final Mix, but I'm fairly certain it was said in KH2 proper as well, and at least alluded to ham fistedly in CoM.
    Their logic isn't so much that they don't exist, or deserve to exist, but that their existence is a paradox. Honestly all of the logic seems pretty flimsy though. Whether this will turns out to be weak writing or intentional probably remains to be seen
     
  6. Ars Nova Just a ghost.

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    I think it's just the way they both think. Xemnas was affected somewhat by the amnesiac Xehanort, who learned from Ansem the Wise—and you also have to consider that he saw the Nobodies as tools, same as his teacher. Their existence was transient to both characters, each for their own reasons. Besides, we know Xemnas isn't a reliable source.
     
  7. A Zebra Chaser

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    It's just debatable HOW unreliable he was when they first introduced the Nobody concept
     
  8. Ars Nova Just a ghost.

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    I don't believe he was thinking clearly in his DiZ form. Even in the Ansem Reports of KHII, his writing is more scattered and emotionally charged than that of a scientist objectively relaying facts. And considering he shows general remorse for his behavior later on, it's safe to say he never meant to condemn the Nobodies the way he did. Paradoxes they may be, and they may even be transient by nature, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't supposed to exist. That would imply the world cares what should and shouldn't be in it; it has no capacity to care, it simply reacts to stimuli. All is as it is. If a Nobody persists, and especially if they can grow a heart, then they ought to have the right to life. Life isn't going to stop them.
     
  9. . : tale_wind Ice to see you!

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    One could argue that Xion's entire existence is unnecessary—she didn't exist before 358/2, and she was erased from existence at the end of 358/2; Roxas' duel-wielding could instead be attributed to Ventus' heart; a compelling story about Organization XIII could have been made without her, or even could have been better without her, giving minor Organization characters more time to shine; etc.—but I kinda like her. Her story is tragic and gives Roxas some serious personal motivation against the Organization and against Sora, and she continued the trend of hero trios.

    Some call Xion a Mary Sue, but I submit that she was a deconstruction of a Mary Sue. She's got some of the hallmark traits of a Sue, but they're ultimately justified. Looks like Kairi? She's a replica of Sora made from his memories of Kairi (as they were his strongest memories). Has a Keyblade? She was made from Sora. Fourteenth Organization member? No she's not; Saix even says "Count the chairs. When have we ever been more than thirteen?" She isn't considered a member by people who aren't named Roxas or Axel. Friends with Roxas and Axel? Well, yeah; they're nice people and decided to befriend a newbie.


    I understand all the flak she gets in the fandom, but I like her.
     
  10. A Zebra Chaser

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    Roxas' dual wielding IS attributed to Ventus, Xion just basically stole the power and Roxas got it back when she died.
    Justifying the tropes isn't really what's important here. Nobody in the actual KHverse thinks Xion is a Mary Sue, the issue exists OUTSIDE the lore. You can write all the excuses and reasoning for her being the way she is, but it ultimately feels like the kind of character a fanfic writer would create if they wanted to have a self insert who turned out to be the reason why Roxas did everything he did.
    And She CAN'T be the reason he did everything he did, because he forgot her. How could he have a grudge against the Organization Sora when he has long since forgotten her?
     
  11. Ars Nova Just a ghost.

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    Didn't I already address this in another thread? She definitely can. Memories aren't so cut-and-dry as that.
     
  12. Plums Wakanda Forever

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    I liked Xion. I thought she was a nice character & actually had a complex role in the plot of the game, comparable to Namine in COM and done much better than Kairi's handling in KH2.While she was kind and did everything for her friends, like Aqua and Kairi, she also was kind of selfish? While her being dodgy to Roxas/Axel towards the end & choosing to let Roxas kill her were for the greater good, she also took it on by herself and didn't let anyone know what was going on. The final fight with Roxas especially was her in a way forcing his hand to do what she wanted him to do. He clearly did not want to kill her, but she purposefully left him very little choice in the matter (even though she was souped up by Xemnas, the scene right before her boss rush showed she still had some semblance of a will left to have a feelings jam with Roxas like she did). I do understand the complaints about her and do think that Nomura definitely could've added more to Days than what he did. What I don't really understand about her are the Mary Sue complaints when she's not very one dimensional at all.

    Xion also ends up explaining how Namine took a whole year to fix Sora back up when it took her two weeks iirc to dismantle them all, which was something I'd been questioning ever since the year time skip happened.
     
  13. narutokhfreak15 Merlin's Housekeeper

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    Honestly, I didn't care much for Xion at first. She seemed like another helpless damsel character, and for the most part that opinion hasn't changed. I appreciate Xion because her's is probably one of the most emotional stories in KH. She fights desperately to keep the small, unhappy existence she has, but is ultimately powerless when it comes to her own fate. Yes, she "wins" in the end and disappears rather than destroying Roxas for the Organiztion, but in the end things don't really work out for her. She still manages to move forward and console Roxas with her dying breath. She has faith that everything will be alright, even though she won't be there to see it through. That makes her very strong in a very quiet way. In a way, she's like the game she appears in. Days was ragged on so hard when it came out, yet her theme still made it onto the "best of" album. I carry it around on my phone, and it makes me wanna cry when I listen. Xion is like that. Not a strong, exciting character like Sora or Roxas, but one with a deep emotional resonance.
     
  14. darkmandrago Merlin's Housekeeper

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    That's not true though if you re watch that cutscene when she dies he forgets her for about 5 seconds and remembers her just before she finishes dying.
     
  15. A Zebra Chaser

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    and then forgets her again
     
  16. darkmandrago Merlin's Housekeeper

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    Yes he forgets her when he gets beaten by Riku and put into the digital world but he's only there for a few days before he rejoins Sora. So the stuff he does is because of her because he doesn't really do much in the Twilight Town days. and with the scene in DDD when he passes his memories onto Sora it is believed that he had ALL of his memories back because what would be the point of showing Sora a couple of days of memories. Also take the pain of Sora's face when he receives the memories of Roxas losing Xion was if I remember correctly to saddest and most painful moment for Roxas as I am pretty sure he doesn't cry at any other time and he gets pretty angry after that too.
     
  17. Eric Luna Destiny Islands Resident

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    Does Xion have a somebody of her self, like Roxas is partialy Ventus' somebody since Ventus' heart was in Sora's heart and nobodies are formed from pure heart turned to darkness. Think About It.
     
  18. . : tale_wind Ice to see you!

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    Well, Roxas looks like Ventus because Ventus' heart is living within Sora; Roxas is 100% Sora's Nobody. Xion, to answer your question, is a replica of Sora made from his memories of Kairi. Since replicas aren't Nobodies, Xion doesn't have a Somebody.
     
  19. parabola Destiny Islands Resident

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    I found almost everything about 358/2 Days disappointing... the whole story and the way it was told lacked a lot of tension or drama, and ultimately most plot developments were retconned anyway. It just seemed like a way less interesting version of Roxas' backstory than what was implied by KH2; in the end, the game didn't even feel like his story at all, even though he was the only PC in the campaign. Xion herself lacked a very dynamic personality, although I will say that she at least had some sort of character arc that made sense. There was nothing really unlikeable about her, it was just disappointing that it wound up being her (largely irrelevant) story rather than Roxas'.
     
  20. Eric Luna Destiny Islands Resident

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    In KH358/2 Days; It is stated in the Secret Reports that Xion is a replica of Roxas, (like the Riku Replica) but who's strength comes from Roxas and was created by one of the Organization members, I think it was either Saix, Vexen, or Xemnas.[DOUBLEPOST=1399905939][/DOUBLEPOST]The fact that Xion didn't say in the story line, shows that she wasn't that important, but that could've changed the story in a big way.