Comments on Profile Post by al215

  1. Misty
    Misty
    Not yet! I originally played the games on Xbox and haven't gotten around to replaying KotOR 2 on PC. I know most of the contents of the TSL RCM though.
    Nov 9, 2014
  2. al215
    al215
    Ahh, you should try it. It's been quite interesting so far just because of the little dialogue changes. I'm looking forward to getting to the new content though. Should be good.

    On another note, what did you think of what they did to poor old Revan in SW:TOR?
    Nov 9, 2014
  3. Misty
    Misty
    Before the RCM came out I'd spent a pretty hefty amount of time looking at everything Obsidian was forced to cut from TSL, from what I understand the mod has been able to retrieve a substantial amount of it which is great, especially to the end given how barebones it was in the official release (and how climactic it was meant to be). I would really like to replay it, both games actually, but right now I'm rather engrossed in a Mass Effect replay, and sadly haven't had much time for gaming in general. ;c

    As for TOR I'm salty about the game existing in general. "We're canning KotOR 3 and instead giving you an MMORPG that happens 300 years after" like whut. I'm not keeping up on the new Revan expansion pack just because I know how awful it will be but they've done enough damage already. Have you read the Revan novel? Because I have a lot of emotions about that too
    Nov 9, 2014
  4. al215
    al215
    I did indeed read Revan I have it proudly on my shelf. I saw it and I was like "There's a book about Revan give me right now" XD. I must say, I wish that it had ended differently (Considering rewriting the ending and the following events with a little fanfic). It was great until then, but even still I think that was acceptable. It all got screwed up when they followed it up with TOR because that was ridiculous. As was Scourge. His little... Decision and the reason for it is stupid because no way is your derpy PC more powerful than Revan. ugh. TOR! Why must you exist! Shadow of Revan is just the nail in the coffin. Nevertheless, I did enjoy the novel and I've reread it a bunch.

    Also fair enough on replaying Mass Effect. That was a great series. ME 2 was just all sorts of perfect. Amazing game. I can't fault it. And so was most of ME 3 for that matter. ME3 was such an emotional game in places like, at one point I nearly cried it was that emotional. Shame that the ending got leaked and they had to change it, or something like that. I do seem to remember a story leak of some kind, although whether that was actually what caused the ending of ME 3 to be in such an awful state I can't say.
    Nov 9, 2014
  5. Misty
    Misty
    I read a plot synopsis before the book came out (it leaked online heh) and was absolutely horrified by the contents, to the point where I boycotted the novel for some time. The summer before last I decided to finally buckle down and read it and my opinion didn't really change. Scourge was ... I mean I know why he was in there but if you're writing a novel about Revan you probably don't want to spend half of it harping on about some guy I don't care about. I'm put out that a lot of my favorite KotOR characters were barely in it (Bastila) and that KotOR II was almost entirely retconned (seriously, Meetra was wasted potential in there). So I overall just have very negative feelings about it, hah. I suppose some points weren't bad but since before I read it I've been writing my own post-KotOR fanfic so I'm just allowing that to function as my headcanon. Admittedly I'm planning to snag one or two ideas from the novel but I'm otherwise entirely ignorning it.

    I love Mass Effect! I agree that Mass Effect is more or less a perfect game, I'm enjoying ME1 right now but I really just can't wait to get to ME2. The ending of ME3 did leak or something and they were forced to change but I don't think it was so set in stone yet (they've divulged details about it and it was hardly anything complete). ME3 has its faults but I actually am not bothered by the ending at all -- I won't go too deep into it though because our next podcast episode is about Mass Effect and I'd love to entice you into becoming a listener, especially considering we talked about KotOR and TOR quite a bit in it as well!
    Nov 9, 2014
  6. al215
    al215
    You talked about KOTOR AND TOR on a podcast without me? D: I'm offended! Nah, it's okay I'm kidding. But I may have to listen to that because that sounds quite interesting. I think the thing with the ME3 ending that bothered me is that it seemed so anticlimactic for everything else you had to do in the game, and how similar the results were. Sure, the circumstances in ME2 were different but all your choices were meaningful because what you did and didn't do defined who lived and died and that I thought was a brilliant use of game mechanics. Gah. Fine. You've convinced me I'll listen to your podcast because I actually want to know your thoughts and then make this conversation string even longer by talking about them XD

    I know what you mean about the lack of the KOTOR characters though. Bastila and Carth deserved more of an appearance, although I understand why they didn't include them because they were off in the republic doing something totally different whilst Revan was out doing his work in the unknown regions for the most part. The first chapter with Revan and Bastila was so good though. It paid off you shipping both of them for the entire first game. It would have been nice to see Meetra explored better I mean she's a WOUND IN THE FORCE for goodness' sake and I don't think that was ever fixed at the end of KOTOR 2 although my memory may have slipped on that detail. That could have been explored so much more. Not to mention all the thoughts she'd have from Malachor and Kreia still in her mind and that could have easily played a part in the book. I did enjoy how Revan followed the trail back to Dromund Kaas though. He and Canderous going back with the mandalorians was great and even some parts of the events following that at I believe it's called Naliama (or something beginning with n). Actually, that was a WAY under used villain I mean, there was so much scope for something awesome that they just didn't use.

    Now that you've mentioned it, how's your fanfic coming? I'd like to read it. I always like to hear how people think that should have ended. See where it differs to my thoughts on things XD
    Nov 10, 2014
  7. Misty
    Misty
    Glad to have persuaded a listener! ha. We weren't originally planning to discuss KotOR but it seems I have difficulty going through an episode without mentioning it at least once. Episodes go up on Tuesdays. :)

    I can understand why Carth wasn't a major player in the novel given his ties to the Republic, his role in rebuilding Telos, and mending his relationship with Dustil (assuming that's canon), but Bastila's almost complete exclusion felt a personal affront to me -- I'm extremely attached to the character, as you'll quickly learn. I wasn't too happy with how their relationship was written and, if memory serves, she essentially just rejoined the Order and had a kid? It's just such a bland ending for such a fantastic character -- which, I do need to moderate my expectations and remember that it's a novel about Revan, not Bastila, but I can't help but be salty over it.

    The upsetting thing about KotOR II in general is that it seems that, because BioWare didn't make it, they've decided to pretty much ignore everything about it except that the Exile exists and is named Meetra Surik. KotOR II did so many interesting things with philosophy and the nature of the Force, mostly through Kreia, that I hoped and expected would be echoed in Revan's story but were just completely absent. Meetra's uniqueness if memory serves was almost entirely omitted and she was pretty much just killed off. Jolee also deserved something in there! I've never been terribly interested in Canderous or the Mandalorians but I know they have such a major part in Revan's story that it was cool to see him sort of return to that.

    The thing about my fanfic is... well, I'm slow. I started it now almost three years ago and I've only just posted the ninth chapter! I'm constantly writing and rewriting and scrapping and editing that it takes me ages to get anything out. It's also not so much to the scale of the Revan novel simply because I don't write much for plot, more for emotion and character -- and because I am so taken with Bastila, it focuses more on her than Revan, haha. If you'd like to take a peek at it, I post it here on KHV but I think it's a bit easier to read on AO3.

    How about you, have you written any KotOR fanfiction? Or anything in general, I'm not too selective haha
    Nov 10, 2014
  8. al215
    al215
    I haven't written any KOTOR fanfics of my own (yet!). I've been entertaining an idea of how to rewrite the events between KOTOR 2 and the end of Revan and then go beyond that. As far as I'm concerned, that really does need improving. And actually, talking to you about this has actually made me notice a few things that could do with fixing (I never really thought too much about Bastila's storyline until you mentioned it) and that could do with a bit of work. I'll get started on that some time.

    Beyond that, I write stuff occasionally. I've given writing a go from time to time, although it's nowhere near complete. I know people who have got like, tens of thousands of words and I'm like "Come on guys give me some of your motivation and time!". I just need to reorganise my days to write I guess. I've started working on a fantasy story recently and I've done the prologue/first chapter of that, but I've already decided that Chapter 1 needs totally rewriting because I already know how the main character's story arc goes, and the book would be way too long for me to write without doing huge time skips so I need to go back and fix that. I think the fix for that is to do almost two PoVs of him- One in the sort of 'present' and one in the 'past' to keep track of current events while explaining why the world is the way it is and why he is the way he is. I do however have what I consider a near perfect prologue. There's nothing I want to change about that. I've been considering posting that in the Writer's Nook for a bit of feedback and suggestions on places to improve.

    And yes, your memory does serve correctly. That does seem a bit off. You'd think falling to the Dark Side, breaking the Jedi Code on matters of love and then having a child would have caused some sort of problem somewhere down the line right? I missed HK-47 in the book. He's not the most subtle of droids but he might have been able to help a bit more than T3, particularly if both were brought along.

    Now that I'm thinking about Kreia, she was one of Revan's teachers. You would have thought he'd have noticed that she had left her mark on Meetra as well, not to mention that she would also have left her mark on Revan too. One of the brilliant things about KOTOR II was the way Kreia would constantly second guess every alignment decision you made. Whether you were LS or DS, she'd always question you and try to make you see that actually, Jedi and Sith are flawed.

    I've always been interested in the Mandalorians for some reason. I think they just looked awesome so I've always wondered who they were and what they were about. What really got me interested and provided most of the knowledge I have on them today is Karen Traviss' Republic Commando novels which look at several Mandalorians brought in to train the ARC Troopers and Commando units. You got a good look at their culture and actually at their language. At the end of every one there's a glossary of words and I found that just fascinating.

    Back on to your fanfic (got a little sidetracked XD) I'm going to give that a read. I don't mind if it's slow because I generally read fairly long books and fairly long series, so it really doesn't bother me that much. And no matter how long it takes you to write, it can't be as bad as waiting for George R.R Martin to release The Winds of Winter because seriously the guy is taking forever about it XD. Also, slowness stops bothering you when you read and enjoy Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series because that's 14 books long all around 800 pages+ long and goodness knows how many words.

    Also, character/emotive writing is just as good as plot advancement sometimes when you explore the characters, so I'm looking forward to going through it because it sounds like you're putting a lot of time and attention into getting this right so it sounds like it'll be good. If there's not too much Revan, that's okay because TOR tried doing too much Revan and we all know how that went. Besides, it'll be nice to see Bastila come back she's always been a favourite of mine although she always wound up walking in Revan's shadow because he was always such a compelling character for me.
    Nov 10, 2014
  9. Misty
    Misty
    I've considered doing a sort of novelization of KotOR as well -- I think series like KotOR and Mass Effect are so wonderful for that, because there's enough freedom there to interpret the events of the game and the characters in your own way that a creative novelization would be an interesting read even for those who have already played the game several times. In fact, the first KotOR fanfiction I ever wrote was a write-up of the kiss scene in KotOR 1! It wasn't the most creative, truthfully -- I lifted most of the dialogue directly and didn't include much more than it -- but it was a good practice for me nonetheless, to start to get into the characters' heads and establish the relationship dynamic I saw between them, in preparation for my later projects. I actually recently rewrote it per a tumblr prompt, which resulted in a rather encouraging example of how I've progressed over the years.

    Setting aside blocks of time to write is probably the best route to productivity but I've never been able to dedicate myself to it. Writing comes more naturally to me when the mood strikes me and I feel in the moment -- in the right mood, if that makes sense, and I think that is ultimately reflected in the quality of what I write. I draw heavily on personal experience and thus find it both therapeutic and a real boon to the end product when I write in the throes of emotion, as it were, or after experiencing something major.

    That's always what's intimidating to me about writing a longer piece! My current fanfiction, Infra, is the longest continuous story I've ever done and I think it mostly definitely shows. Halfway through I changed a lot of my early plans, which was good, because early-on I really floundered in not knowing where I was going to go. That is an interesting narrative structure to go with, though, and I wish you luck! Definitely post up in the Nook when you feel ready and I'll take a peek when I get a chance. After reading 1Q84 by Haruki Murakami (which I adored) I've grown a bit more open to narratives that change a bit -- 1Q84 switches back and forth between the two main characters, and focuses a lot on how their stories connect and interweave. It's made me want to retry Virginia Woolf's The Waves, or perhaps inject it into my own writing at some point.

    Exactly! And if they had retained a lot of the philosophy and moral gray-ness from KotOR II, I think Bastila could have had a very interesting role in it. But alas not... And totally agreed about HK-47, omitting him is frankly a crime.

    Kreia absolutely frustrated the pants off of me every time I played KotOR II for that very reason! And yet, I think she's probably one of the most compelling and well-written characters in the Star Wars EU. That's why I'm so distraught that all she introduced and stood for had absolutely no place in the Revan novel, as there was a perfect opportunity -- as both Revan and Meetra were her apprentices at some point. Plus I'd really love closure on that theory that Kreia is Arren Kae!

    Fair enough! I've never been really compelled by the soldier culture or stories, but I've been told continuously how well some of them are done that I should really give them a shot at some point. Someone who used to be on here a lot actually was fluent in Mando'a which I found so impressive.

    As I kinda mentioned it moves rather slowly in the beginning just because, when I started, I had no idea where exactly I wanted to go or any kind of plot in mind, so I just sort of dragged my feet around for the first four chapters or so. Now that an end is in sight (though I'm far from it), one of my goals after I finish is to go back and edit it into a "final version" of sorts. I don't necessarily want to omit things, but since so much time has passed I'd love to clean up some of the writing, do some reorganizing, and condense some of the more repetitive areas.

    As for waiting, it's a familiar concept to me as well! One of the fics that really got me into fanfiction was a Kingdom Hearts III fic; it took nearly five years for the author to complete, and I started reading it very early on! In retrospect, now that I've been working on Infra for three years, it's not such an excessively long time, especially considering our comparative productivity -- I've done 17k words over 9 chapters, and this KH fic has 194k words in 93 chapters!

    If you can believe it after reading a few chapters, the fic was originally far more focused on Bastila -- Revan was barely even a thing! In the end I'm glad I followed the advice of someone to do more with his character, simply because he's obviously integral to Bastila's story and felt incredibly under-developed by comparison. Right now I'm happy with the balance I've achieved, the past few chapters have been more about Revan in preparation for the ending, but I think it still retains its status as being from Bastila's POV.
    Nov 10, 2014
  10. al215
    al215
    I know exactly what you mean about waiting for like, the right mood for writing. I kind of have to wait for a burst of inspiration and off I go and I'll write a few thousand words and be done with it. The problem is like, I have to keep that inspiration going and while I can plan the plot outside of that moment, I haven't yet been able to push myself to write outside of it with any great attention. Admittedly, I should try a bit more because I have moments where I could be working on it but I'm not XD

    Personal experience is also a huge inspiration for me (Probably why I'll run into moments where emotion doesn't convey because I haven't had even half a life time of it yet! XD). I do some sword fighting in real life, so the feedback I've got is that I can do action sequences fairly well because I can in a way, channel that mindset I take when I've got the blade in the hand and condense that into words on a page. It does make them quite long sometimes simply because I work on a basis of each strike flowing into the next, meaning that I write that way so my poor comma button gets abused during those sequences.

    Having read your fanfic, it does move slowly but it's good nonetheless. There's good characterisation in there and some of the scenes between Revan/Bastila made me smile because it was really endearing, and the fact that you brought back Bastila's mother is actually a really good idea. It's an oft forgotten part of her character when you've got Revan's bond and her fall to contend with. I do like the balance, although it does definitely has an undercurrent of being from Bastila's point of view. Which is good, because I haven't seen her very much since KOTOR so a continuation that focuses on what she feels rather than what she does is something fairly new. It's a form of writing I don't usually come across. You put a lot more emphasis on emotion and I put a lot more emphasis on actions. The fact that you can get into a character's head is something I quite admire. I can't always do that unless I really, really relate to a character. Perhaps you can relate to Bastila and/or Revan I don't know XD

    Another problem of mine is my standards. My prologue chapter is some 6000 words long and I think I kind of expect myself to write chapters of comparable if not greater length which perhaps holds me back a bit because it's intimidating trying to figure out how to make that word count. It does actually need to be that long though. I always have an attitude of writing being as long as it needs to convey the story, so perhaps I should try practicing what I preach so often.

    There was a guy here fluent in Mando'a? o_0 I admire that guy. I'd love to be able to do that. I can't sadly but still, I can learn.

    Back to KOTOR that theory that Arren Kae is Kreia is really interesting and actually plausible. I only discovered it recently. Unfortunately Chris Avellone just had to do a "I can't say." on the matter which is REALLY annoying! That said, maybe there's hope of a KOTOR 3 from Obsidian, which hopefully maybe appears and resolves that. It would be awesome if he managed to pull a KOTOR 3 out of his metaphorical hat, although I'd be afraid that it'd change too much from what it was to be recognisable. And also they might have to deal with this awful canon that BioWare have given us.

    It would be nice to actually see Kreia's story from start to end. We get ideas and hints of what happened, but I'd love to see something that started from her entry into the Jedi Order and her descent into cynicism about it, her time as leader of the Sith Triumvirate and her casting down all the way to her fall at Malachor. She's an enigma and it'd be fascinating to see all of what happened to develop her away from the usual sagely Jedi Code preaching Force user or maniacal Sith mastermind to a Gray Jedi hell bent on the destruction of the Force. That in itself is such a unique and compelling motive that you can't help but be interested! Jedi are always finding plots and Sith are always killing each other, but I can't think of anyone who has ever tried destroying that which gave them their power. And the fact that Kreia had to use, indeed RELY on the very thing she hated... That's another fascinating character trait.
    Nov 10, 2014
  11. Misty
    Misty
    Definitely the same problem here! And I'm sure that most writers suffer from the same thing. I have such respect for the people who complete NaNoWriMo.

    Ah see that's my opposite problem! I feel things quite intensely and though I don't have a plethora of life experience to draw from, I feel I've done pretty well with what I've got. Things like action sequences, though, I can't give you a thing! They either end up as "uh they smacked their lightsabers together around for a bit and it was flashy" or I just actively write around them heeeh. I've been trying to do more research before writing to mend that, thogh.

    Aw thank you! I've always loved the side quest with Bastila's mother, I feel it's just a really fantastic and humanizing moment for the character -- especially because I did it quite early in the game, before the romance really got going, so it was sort of the first time Bastila descended from her throne. It left an impression and in other post-KotOR fics I've read, Helena is completely absent! I toyed around with the idea of actually doing an origins fic which would visit several KotOR characters, Bastila included, because I feel her relationship with her parents is pretty integral to understanding her character. I do relate quite deeply to her -- Revan is harder in the sense that he's a character you construct for yourself, so my main difficulty in writing him is that I really need to pin down a concrete Revan character rather than just "I was nice and picked the funny dialogue options." I read this really helpful thing on tumblr once, though, that if you're struggling to get into a character's mind, writing down a few facts about that character's life or somesuch will help you -- even if they never make it into what you're writing (they're not meant to). They just help inform you of the character, make them feel more real, help you consider an impetus for all their actions. Fanfiction makes it a bit easier because you (usually) have more of a backstory for the characters, but for original ones, something like their childhood relationships with their parents or their siblings, what their laugh sounds like, their romantic history (or lack thereof), even just their hobbies -- they can really inform your writing!

    Damn, that's quite a prologue! My chapters initially averaged around 1k words, but I've begun to push myself to write more per chapter, and to move things forward in each chapter more. I'm studying English Education in college, though, so I'm still a bit stuck in the mindset of academic writing rather than creative, where you're trying to say what you have to in as few words as possible. Creative writing of course allows for a bit more ornamentation, something I have to grow more accustomed too -- unfortunately pushing myself to write more often ends in slightly purple prose rather than focusing on detail, which I get the impression you are doing. This is one thing that NaNoWriMo does kinda well, though -- they pretty much tell you to write and write and write and not look back to edit until you've finished, as editing and brushing everything up to your high standards often prevents you from getting the later bits written.

    Girl actually! She drops in from time to time still but not so much anymore.

    Avellone is such a fantastic writer that I don't doubt for a moment that it was unintentional! I have to tip my hat not to him but also the person who picked up on it -- in my daydreams I like to imagine it was initially a much larger part of KotOR II's story but was one of the early cuts. On the flip side, though, I like Kreia being a bit of a mystery. She's just such a fantastic character as you say that I'd be so excited to learn every detail about her, and if it was coming from Avellone I have such faith in him to do it in a manner that would balance her mystery and enigma with my thirst for knowledge about her. If they ever put her in TOR I have significantly less faith -- though thankfully, aside from retconning everything, KotOR II seems safe from TOR's clutches.

    Ahhh I try not to ever get my hopes up about KotOR III, especially considering how badly TOR ****ed things up, but Disney acquiring Lucasarts gave me a glimmer of hope that I allowed to reawaken during this year's E3. That hope, of course, was dashed, but I positively love if Obsidian were given a crack at it.
    Nov 11, 2014
  12. al215
    al215
    We should compare notes some time! I can impart some of my experience with action sequences and maybe if you can try and show how to write characters/emotions. That would be great if you could.

    I've never thought of actually writing down the points of a character's life before to try and understand them before writing. I will try that next time I go to write something, so thank you. Usually I think it out in my head, but I should try getting it down so I always know what I'm meant to write like. I've always found it easier to come up with original characters than to get into the head of another pre-existing character is for me though, because I'm always second guessing whether that's really what they're like or if they think like that, and I've got the issue of character voice to deal with. Whenever you write a different character, sentence structure etc. should be different too and I've never quite got the hang of it.

    All credit for you for doing English in College. I can't do it. As much as I love writing and reading I've always found English courses frustratingly restrictive and way too specific for me and the academic side of writing doesn't let me have my free rein with my imagination which is the best part of creative writing. I know so many people doing NaNo and I have no idea how they do it. I can't do it, so much effort and I feel the need to have everything mostly right. I guess maybe I should try making a solid plan too. I know the story arcs but not how to form them so I kind of take writing as it comes to my mind.

    There's actually disappointingly a character that sounds unusually similar to Kreia referenced in TOR. The problem is, the codex description and her dialogue don't really match up. She's kind of like this weird spirit thing that's been enslaved by one of the Sith, but the problem is like, ugh. What she says is just so NOT Kreia that it's so unlikely to be her yet that's what's referenced. If it is meant to be her, then I officially hate TOR even more for having such a gross misunderstanding of characters.

    I'm curious, what did you make of Atton? He's another interesting character, more so later on when you gain influence with him. I found that when I knew his backstory, he actually became far more interesting and compelling than just the rogueish character.

    Problem with Disney having LucasArts is that they're not really interested in the games per say which is a shame. They've farmed out the Star Wars licence to EA of all people, so we'll have to deal with whatever they bring out. Chances are, they'll probably not bring back anything, particularly the way KoTOR was. I don't think they've really got the soul in them if you know what I mean? It's a really soulless company that exists to churn out money and that's what they've turned their developers into and I'm quite cynical of anything they say that implies otherwise. I feel like Obsidian are an enthusiastic developer if you know what I mean? They make games because they love them and want to make one, rather than it just being the allocated task for the next development cycle which to me is what it looks like a lot of things have become.

    Speaking of Disney, do you keep up with any of the news on Episode VII?
    Nov 12, 2014